Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[andrewpmk]

And you will pay the cost difference due to the technical complications?
Queen is 350 meters from King. Get over it and stop sulking. There's is benefits associated with a Queen alignment also.

I don't think that the city is properly comparing the King and Queen routes though. There is also the Front/Wellington route which is similar to the King route but has the major advantage that shutting down streetcars is not required during construction. This study obviously has its biases. It considers destinations like Ryerson University, the hospitals, City Hall and Eaton Centre important (fair enough) but ignores destinations further south like CityPlace, CN Tower, Air Canada Centre, Rogers Centre, Exhibition Place, etc.

This is almost certainly not going to be the last study of the DRL and Metrolinx will probably do its own studies and recommend different routes. There is bound to be a Queen vs King fight at city council at some point. Also this study is looking at the Pape to downtown section in isolation. This is a mistake because the western extension needs to be considered when choosing a route. There is not much development along Queen Street West because everything has a heritage destination and there is a lot more development on King Street West. If we are going to spend $10 billion or more on the DRL it has to be done properly.

It may only be a few hundred metres but I think that it is large enough that it will make a significant difference to ridership. A Queen route serves roughly the area between King and Dundas, while a King route serves roughly the area between the railway tracks and Queen. If a Queen route is chosen then residential areas along the waterfront will be a long walk from the new subway and residents of those areas will not use it. This will make those residents heavily dependent on GO trains and streetcars. A Queen route will be too far to walk from the Air Canada Centre, Rogers Centre and Exhibition Place. Additional GO stations could be added at Spadina, Liberty Village, the Unilever site and Gerrard but my guess is that the GO trains will be very crowded, particularly if express trains do not stop at these stations.

My speculation is that part of the reason for choosing Queen is to separate the DRL from "SmartTrack" so that "SmartTrack" has higher ridership numbers and so that the two lines together serve a larger area. However if "SmartTrack" or the Lakeshore line charge TTC fares and have high frequencies, they are going to get very crowded. Building the DRL along Queen is going to make a Union Station GO tunnel more of a necessity.

 

[crs1026]

This is almost certainly not going to be the last study of the DRL and Metrolinx will probably do its own studies and recommend different routes. There is bound to be a Queen vs King fight at city council at some point.

Let's all agree that whatever our personal preferences, we are united in insisting that the city have a proper debate, make a decision, and move on it.

This issue will never have a clear no-brainer answer. Each option has some unique pro's and some definite con's. The only bad answer is to have the "losing" faction mount a no-holds campaign to reverse the initial decision. That could cost us three years in the decisionmaking step, meaning shovels don't hit the ground for that length of time.

We know how these debates go in this city.

- Paul

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Let's all agree that whatever our personal preferences, we are united in insisting that the city have a proper debate, make a decision, and move on it.

This issue will never have a clear no-brainer answer. Each option has some unique pro's and some definite con's. The only bad answer is to have the "losing" faction mount a no-holds campaign to reverse the initial decision. That could cost us three years in the decisionmaking step, meaning shovels don't hit the ground for that length of time.

We know how these debates go in this city.

The time for debate regarding the DRL is long past. King or Queen it doesn't matter - and the last thing I am interested in is someone wanting to fight over it for whatever (quite plasuibly ulterior) purposes. Just get the damn thing built - we don't need another ten year of studies to justify any of the proposed alignments.

AoD

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There is bound to be a Queen vs King fight at city council at some point.

The time for debate regarding the DRL is long past.

1. City council already approved the Queen alignment (Pape to downtown at least) on March 31.
2. Queen vs King is not subway vs LRT. Furthermore, the Relief Line is not in Scarborough. If someone tries to start a debate about the alignment at city hall, it will be shot down.

 

[goreckm]

1. City council already approved the Queen alignment (Pape to downtown at least) on March 31.
2. Queen vs King is not subway vs LRT. Furthermore, the Relief Line is not in Scarborough. If someone tries to start a debate about the alignment at city hall, it will be shot down.

In this city? When is transit certain until the boring machines are in the ground? Already, the councillor in the Pape area where the subway will be in is going to propose a motion to study a Carlaw alignment instead of the Pape alignment due to the NIMBYs being very loud. The fight to build a DRL is still a very long way away from being won, and a lot of things can derail it. There will be at least two more provincial and municipal elections before this thing starts construction. I would take any current plans with a grain of salt.

 

[ksun]

I don't think that the city is properly comparing the King and Queen routes though. There is also the Front/Wellington route which is similar to the King route but has the major advantage that shutting down streetcars is not required during construction. This study obviously has its biases. It considers destinations like Ryerson University, the hospitals, City Hall and Eaton Centre important (fair enough) but ignores destinations further south like CityPlace, CN Tower, Air Canada Centre, Rogers Centre, Exhibition Place, etc.

This is almost certainly not going to be the last study of the DRL and Metrolinx will probably do its own studies and recommend different routes. There is bound to be a Queen vs King fight at city council at some point. Also this study is looking at the Pape to downtown section in isolation. This is a mistake because the western extension needs to be considered when choosing a route. There is not much development along Queen Street West because everything has a heritage destination and there is a lot more development on King Street West. If we are going to spend $10 billion or more on the DRL it has to be done properly.

It may only be a few hundred metres but I think that it is large enough that it will make a significant difference to ridership. A Queen route serves roughly the area between King and Dundas, while a King route serves roughly the area between the railway tracks and Queen. If a Queen route is chosen then residential areas along the waterfront will be a long walk from the new subway and residents of those areas will not use it. This will make those residents heavily dependent on GO trains and streetcars. A Queen route will be too far to walk from the Air Canada Centre, Rogers Centre and Exhibition Place. Additional GO stations could be added at Spadina, Liberty Village, the Unilever site and Gerrard but my guess is that the GO trains will be very crowded, particularly if express trains do not stop at these stations.

My speculation is that part of the reason for choosing Queen is to separate the DRL from "SmartTrack" so that "SmartTrack" has higher ridership numbers and so that the two lines together serve a larger area. However if "SmartTrack" or the Lakeshore line charge TTC fares and have high frequencies, they are going to get very crowded. Building the DRL along Queen is going to make a Union Station GO tunnel more of a necessity.

Tell me, the waterfront condo residents are expected to take the DRL to go where exactly? I am perplexed. And it contradicts your conclusion that even a King DRL only serves the area between the railtrack and Queen st. Waterfront is quite some distance away.

Plus, the DRL is supposed to mainly relieve pressure at Yonge/Bloor. Let's not lose this focus. We can't make the mistake of expecting the DRL to do everything. We can't. The DRL is not supposed to serve waterfront residents and stop expecting it will. The waterfront will eventually need its own dedicated route, LRT or subway, not some line north of the railway. That shouldn't be a factor in this.

And more specifically your Queen bias analysis is so off. Ryerson, the hospitals, City Hall and to a large extent Eaton centre are large trip generators during rush hours, because thousands of people work there while CN tower, ACC, Rogers Center and Exhibition Place are NOT. This comes to the original question: DRL is supposed to relieve pressure on Yonge during rush hours, not to make it convenient for people to see the CN tower and watch a game on the weekends. Isn't that obvious? As to City Place? I will ask again, where will the residents go by taking the DRL? you can't possibly think most CP folks take the subway to King/Bay to work at 8:30am, do you? And you know nobody goes to CP unless they live there.

Your west extension obsession is probably self-serving. I don't know. This line, if extended, should be extended northward to Eglinton or further as the first phase, not to the west. The west side already has a relief line called "University-Spadina line". having more options of course is desired but it is not the priority.

Like mentioned, we would want to move this project ahead asap, and the last thing we want is to get bogged down by a King vs. Queen debate for another 2 years with endless bickering and changes of plan. The DRL will not make everyone happy so there is no perfect alignment to achieve that goal. And again, Queen is only 350m north of King, so whoever desires a King route because it is more accessible for them, it is a 3 minutes walk, deal with it.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Especially if it's more of a Richmond alignment making it closer to King.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The King Station is closer to the Queen Station, than the Queen Station is to Osgoode Station. If there were problems on the Yonge portion of Line 1, I would easily walk to the University portion. Therefore, I see no problem having the Relief Line along Queen Street, if I had to walk to it from King Street.

 

[DSC]

Is this RELIEF LINE CONNECTED??

Please join Mayor John Tory and the Honourable Steven Del Duca this week for two important announcements on the future of transit in Toronto.


When: Wednesday, June 22, 2016, 3:00pm

Where: 21 Don Roadway (see the attached map for location details)


Please let us know if you are able to make it out to this event. If you any specific questions, feel free to email daniela.magisano@toronto.ca


Thank you very much,


Office of Mayor John Tory

 

[nfitz]

Well, both future Smartrack station locations ... so presumably that's it. Only the latter is a DRL Phase 1 location.

And the government just announced the funding for further DRL study - so I can't think they'd be announcing anything else yet.

 

[andrewpmk]

Well, both future Smartrack station locations ... so presumably that's it. Only the latter is a DRL Phase 1 location.

And the government just announced the funding for further DRL study - so I can't think they'd be announcing anything else yet.

I think that it is SmartTrack. There have been a whole bunch of GO announcements lately - first the 407 freight bypass, now the Bowmanville extension.

The provincial government seems to be spending large amounts of money on GO at the expense of neglecting the subway system (both maintenance and expansion).

 

[Forgotten]

And you will pay the cost difference due to the technical complications?
Queen is 350 meters from King. Get over it and stop sulking. There's is benefits associated with a Queen alignment also.

The estimated cost to keep the subway on Queen with a stop at Unilever (and away from Tory's ScamTrack) is projected to be the highest of the evaluated options. Be careful what you people wish for. Queen stations will be deeper and you might run into "technical issues" which will conveniently crop up to raise costs to give outsiders a reason to unfairly cancel it.

And more specifically your Queen bias analysis is so off. Ryerson, the hospitals, City Hall and to a large extent Eaton centre are large trip generators during rush hours, because thousands of people work there while CN tower, ACC, Rogers Center and Exhibition Place are NOT. This comes to the original question: DRL is supposed to relieve pressure on Yonge during rush hours, not to make it convenient for people to see the CN tower and watch a game on the weekends. Isn't that obvious? As to City Place? I will ask again, where will the residents go by taking the DRL? you can't possibly think most CP folks take the subway to King/Bay to work at 8:30am, do you? And you know nobody goes to CP unless they live there.

Relief Line
Main Advantages of Corridor B1

Recognizes That Downtown is Not Just 9-5

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

The relief line is too short and they city keeps delaying it. Make it Dundas West to Eglinton East, phase 1. Mount Dennis and Don Mills, Phase 2. 407 in Markham, Phase, 3.

 

[Adjei]

The relief line is too short and they city keeps delaying it. Make it Dundas West to Eglinton East, phase 1. Mount Dennis and Don Mills, Phase 2. 407 in Markham, Phase, 3.

Are you living in la la land?

 

[ksun]

Are you living in la la land?

Considering the one stop Scarborough line will cost 2.9b, what he proposed wi
will probably cost 10 times at least？