Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[44 North]

Wow, this thread moved a lot in the last two days. Frankly, I was a bit underwhelmed with Metrolinx's YRNS report. I was anticipating it for quite some time, but I guess I was hoping there'd be a bit more meat on it. A couple things: why does Metrolinx continue to present the RH corridor as an option to be rejected, when everyone is in unanimous agreement that the RH line is almost useless with its current alignment. Whether it's DMU or EMU, the line is a circuitous slow trip through the valley with no stops between Sheppard and Union. On top of that, I don't think it could even work as electrified RER due to it being in a floodplain. Obviously it's going to have low ridership and be rejected.

Another thing is the LRT option. What exactly is that? And how on earth can a trip from Don Mills/Sheppard to Union take 20mins? Is it an extension of the 504 north of Danforth, a Transit City Phase II DMLRT? Or what?

I'm with WislaHD and Gweed in that Metrolinx should very well examine an RH-RER-DRL. Whether it's with the abandoned Don Branch and Leaside Spur, or a formal DRL alignment - it seems so logical that it should at least be looked at and presented as an option. However, my guess is any improvement/realignment of the RH corridor won't be looked at for the sole reason that it lessens the case for extending Yonge north of Steeles.

 

[gweed123]

I like this idea and the logic behind killing two transit birds with one stone approach to the Yonge/DRL dilemma. That said, why hasn't Metrolinx listed this as an option for the YRNS? Do you suppose this has even been considered?

My bet is because it rocks the boat too much compared to what is currently on the table. It would require big changes to the current plans for the DRL, GO RER, SmartTrack (GO RER Local), and the North Yonge Subway extension. A lot of those projects are being planned independently, but an RH RER DRL would require a much tighter integration in planning and execution of those projects. There would be a better solution at the end of it though, which is why it may be worth it.

The problem I see with this proposal is that if you were coming from Sheppard east you would be arriving at Donmills via LRT or Bus. Then you would need to transfer to a subway for one stop to then transfer to this RH RER DRL scheme. People hate transfers and unless sheppard is going to convert the subway to LRT that is going to be one massive hurdle to jump.

Of course, that could be solved by converting the Sheppard Subway to LRT. Given that that would happen after the Eglinton LRT, which would use a similar configuration, would be open I don't think it would be as controversial of an idea as it is now. Sheppard would be the only location where that would be an issue though. And if the Sheppard East LRT gets put on the back-burner, the Sheppard East bus can always just be extended to Leslie instead. There would be a small overlap between the bus and the subway, but a direct connection would exist.

 

[wopchop]

Part of me thinks this is all a moot issue getting people to commute so far. I think anyone younger than 30 is going to make a effort to live closer to where they work. It's the older generation which was ok with long drives for cheaper property. The younger generationdont even want to mow a lawn yet alone commit to commuting
such distances . Anyways if the miway was converted to LRT which connected to the crosstown you couldstill get toMCC in decent time compared to today.

That's not so simple.

A single person may chose renting vs owning, and move with a relative ease to be closer to job, then move again if the job location changes.

But those with families often do not have such flexibility. Two working spouses may have jobs located far apart, therefore one of them will have to commute a long distance no matter where they live. Many children do not adjust well when they have to change kindergarten or school too often. If you have a set of doctors, weekend activities etc in your current neighborhood, it may require a lot of effort to find replacements at a new location.

At the same time, many jobs are unstable these days. In a number of occupations, you should expect to be changing your job every few years.

In many cases, a family not burdened with home ownership will still chose to stay in a location that requires a long commute.

Exactly right. Creating greater network connectivity is the key to improving labour mobility in this province. This will help the economy, as it will assist employers in attracting the best talent, not necessarily the best talent that happens to live close-by.

It is easy to say "move closer to where you work", but in reality, it is not so simple. Most people don't stay at one employer for their whole career. Two working spouses are not necessarily always going to be working at a location that is close together.

And considering the amount of people moving into new developments in West Brampton, North Oakville, Milton, Grimsby, etc. I highly doubt that the trend is so simple as "all young people are moving downtown". Sure, many more millennials are moving into cities, but certainly not all of them.

 

[WislaHD]

Exactly right. Creating greater network connectivity is the key to improving labour mobility in this province. This will help the economy, as it will assist employers in attracting the best talent, not necessarily the best talent that happens to live close-by.

It is easy to say "move closer to where you work", but in reality, it is not so simple. Most people don't stay at one employer for their whole career. Two working spouses are not necessarily always going to be working at a location that is close together.

And considering the amount of people moving into new developments in West Brampton, North Oakville, Milton, Grimsby, etc. I highly doubt that the trend is so simple as "all young people are moving downtown". Sure, many more millennials are moving into cities, but certainly not all of them.

True.

I made my previous post because my father had the ideal job opportunity in Guelph recently, and as we found out, there is no easy or practical way to commute there by transit or car in less than 2h.

I dream of the day where the labor market of the GTA, Hamilton, K-W-G and Barrie are all inter-connected. Where it won't be an odd thing for someone from Hamilton or Kitchener to commute for work to Toronto or Markham and vice versa.

 

[Tuscani01]

True.

I made my previous post because my father had the ideal job opportunity in Guelph recently, and as we found out, there is no easy or practical way to commute there by transit or car in less than 2h.

I dream of the day where the labor market of the GTA, Hamilton, K-W-G and Barrie are all inter-connected. Where it won't be an odd thing for someone from Hamilton or Kitchener to commute for work to Toronto or Markham and vice versa.

Same here. There are many positions I've been interested outside of the city, however, the commuting options have resulted in me completely ignoring these job postings. It would be nice not having to worry about reverse commuting.

 

[sixrings]

Maybe it is just the circle of people I know which if looking for a job would only look within a certain distance from their house. Also my wife and I live in one area of the city and we both commute to work opposite from our houses. I have changed job once and had to choose a job based on my location. Personally I hate commuting and I think with less and less people getting licenses and the cost of car driving going up I cant see it being sustainable in the future. Also with Torontos condo boom there has been a office boom as well. Perhaps people will not be driving out of Toronto in the future but taking transit downtown. Perhaps the people who want a McMansion and move to places like Mississauga or Richmond hill will grow their own jobs so they too can work in their own community. I can dream. Anyways this conversation all came up because I cant see the need for a smart track on Eglinton when a ROW LRT with limited stops could do the same thing (connect Toronto to Mississauga).

 

[44 North]

I'm looking for a Metrolinx report from June 2014 that was a Long List of Relief options, which I think would shed light on what their shortlisted "LRT" line idea entails. Previously it could be accessed from this (now dead) link from their Regional Relief page http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/reliefstudy/YRNS_Long_List_for_Consultation_EN.pdf

From another YRNS document the routing possibilities are described (Option 5), but there's no actual maps given. If someone knows a working link of this report, it'd be appreciated. $3.5bn and 20mins from Sheppard to Union, while using an in-median setup downtown...it's definitely interesting!

 

[Hank]

I'm looking for a Metrolinx report from June 2014 that was a Long List of Relief options, which I think would shed light on what their shortlisted "LRT" line idea entails. Previously it could be accessed from this (now dead) link from their Regional Relief page http://www.metrolinx.com/en/projectsandprograms/reliefstudy/YRNS_Long_List_for_Consultation_EN.pdf

From another YRNS document the routing possibilities are described (Option 5), but there's no actual maps given. If someone knows a working link of this report, it'd be appreciated. $3.5bn and 20mins from Sheppard to Union, while using an in-median setup downtown...it's definitely interesting!

Is this what you're looking for? The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is great, by the way.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Is this what you're looking for? The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is great, by the way.

Now I know what the Metrolinx's CEO was talking about when he said they were looking at everything, including busses, as an option for relief.

 

[WislaHD]

Now I know what the Metrolinx's CEO was talking about when he said they were looking at everything, including busses, as an option for relief.

Even Monorails and Gondolas.

 

[Edward Skira]

Even Swan Boats? Oh right that's someone else's website.

 

[Lenser]

I dream of the day where the labor market of the GTA, Hamilton, K-W-G and Barrie are all inter-connected. Where it won't be an odd thing for someone from Hamilton or Kitchener to commute for work to Toronto or Markham and vice versa.

I'm in the local television industry. That scenario is actually pretty common. Quite a lot of the people I work with drive in from places like Hamilton, Acton, Coburg, and Barrie, daily... coming to work at facilities like Pinewood, 629 and 721 Eastern, 30 Booth, 777 Kipling, and other production spots... and yeah, they're drivers.

The commutes are certainly lengthy but the people who do it tend not to want to live in Toronto - either it's too big or too expensive or both.

Me, I couldn't put in those hours behind the wheel. It's soul-crushing.

 

[44 North]

Is this what you're looking for? The Internet Archive Wayback Machine is great, by the way.

Ah yes. I knew someone tech-savvy could find it. Thanks!

I'm not sure about this, but I think the neon green line would feature prominently in the shortlisted "LRT" option we're now being presented with. It seems the only way to make the trip from Sheppard to Union in 20mins and for $3.5bn. I still don't think that's possible, particularly since Metrolinx said it would be in-median through downtown. Which leads me to p. 20, where it mentions converting part of the streetcar network to LRT, or 'upgrading the 504 to serve as a relief line style transit line'. If this is what the LRT RL line would be, I can't see this being rapid in any way - even with priority signals and lanes.

As well, here's a map of a realignment of the RH corridor using the Leaside Spur and Don Branch. I guess Metrolinx has completely dropped this option, but as is evident the route would be much straighter, faster, and less prone to flooding. Not to mention there'd be opportunities for infill stations between Sheppard and Union.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The infill stations option in the core for that route is pretty pitiful.

AoD

 

[44 North]

The infill stations option in the core for that route is pretty pitiful.

Yeah, but we don't really know anything about this LRT option - other than it having eight stations, a 20min journey, using some in-median, and costing $3.5bn. Those maps are just long list ideas thrown together from a report from last year, with my presumption as to what has been shortlisted from it. Would this LRT use USRC, or Front Street? How many stations would there be between Danforth and Union? I guess we'll have to wait a year to find out.