Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

cplchanb said:
the city could sell development rights to developers who will incorporate subway stations into their designs and development. unfortunately though the planned corridor for the DRL is not really
prime condo development territory so the prospects do not look good. not to mention theres no existing condo development on the route except for the city core. sure it can help relieve the pressure on yonge but this subway will never make money. if you look at other metros and lrts in europe and asia you can clearly see that most stations are incorporated into large scale development and condos. they have connections to all the major areas around the city (including the airport.........) and they are not relying on substantial government subsidies to keep them alive. all the stations along the allen expwy save yorkdale are all poorly thought out, underdeveloped and a waste of money, and from the looks of it, the DRL will not be making any money for TTC even if they somehow grew the money off of trees to pay for it. long story short, the ttc and the city should stop trying to rely on taxes and govt lifelines and turn to avenues that make more business sense
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Why can't the TTC own shopping centres, office buildings, residential developments at stations themselves? In the Far East, the transit agencies do own such developments as a source of revenue.

Here in North America, it would be considered a "monopoly" and would be broken apart. That's what happened with many electric utilities in the U.S. being forced to get rid of their transit holdings.
 
cplchanb said:
if you look at other metros and lrts in europe and asia you can clearly see that most stations are incorporated into large scale development and condos. they have connections to all the major areas around the city (including the airport.........) and they are not relying on substantial government subsidies to keep them alive. all the stations along the allen expwy save yorkdale are all poorly thought out, underdeveloped and a waste of money, and from the looks of it, the DRL will not be making any money for TTC even if they somehow grew the money off of trees to pay for it. long story short, the ttc and the city should stop trying to rely on taxes and govt lifelines and turn to avenues that make more business sense
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Except of course that our system receives less of a subsidy than those European systems you mention. The Asian systems do better, but there are a million other factors that also come into play there.
 
W. K. Lis said:
Why can't the TTC own shopping centres, office buildings, residential developments at stations themselves? In the Far East, the transit agencies do own such developments as a source of revenue.

Here in North America, it would be considered a "monopoly" and would be broken apart. That's what happened with many electric utilities in the U.S. being forced to get rid of their transit holdings.
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How could it be a monopoly? Owning parts of buildings over subway stations doesn't mean they own the whole city.
 
Is the DRL still a generic term for some kind of transit relief or is there now an agreed upon route and technology use?
 
cplchanb said:
the city could sell development rights to developers who will incorporate subway stations into their designs and development. unfortunately though the planned corridor for the DRL is not really
prime condo development territory so the prospects do not look good. not to mention theres no existing condo development on the route except for the city core. sure it can help relieve the pressure on yonge but this subway will never make money. if you look at other metros and lrts in europe and asia you can clearly see that most stations are incorporated into large scale development and condos. they have connections to all the major areas around the city (including the airport.........) and they are not relying on substantial government subsidies to keep them alive. all the stations along the allen expwy save yorkdale are all poorly thought out, underdeveloped and a waste of money, and from the looks of it, the DRL will not be making any money for TTC even if they somehow grew the money off of trees to pay for it. long story short, the ttc and the city should stop trying to rely on taxes and govt lifelines and turn to avenues that make more business sense
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I was going to say Spadina should end at Eglinton and then they can figure out another north/south subway route but then realized its too late since that poorly thought out design has continued into Vaughan
 
Yep. There is a lot of change that can come from that though, what street it is on, what station it connects to at danforth, what the station spacing is, etc. I know what I would like for the line and I have outlined that before, but currently we have no knowledge of the alignment.

The good thing is that Metrolinx has given this a big budget in the big move, meaning that I doubt they will be going "cheap" on us in terms of stations.
 
According to Jennifer Keesmat this is the area being studied right now:

https://twitter.com/jen_keesmaat/status/438014719006621696/photo/1

someone feel free to extract the pic if necessary, I can't attach on this device

I'm a fan of the wellington alignment with walking connections to King/St Andrew but honestly I'll take anything at this point.
 
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So the 7 billion allocated for this, is only from the Bloor line to the University line? That seems quite expensive..
 
Adjei said:
So the 7 billion allocated for this, is only from the Bloor line to the University line? That seems quite expensive..
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dont forget that the 7 billion includes (hopefully) the government procurement/contract/management incompetency and cost overrun fund.
its true that a big reason for such a price tag is due to inflation, but its almost certain that a lot of the cost is due to wasteful spending and paying for items that couldve been dealt with in a much more efficient/cost effective way

oyea factor in union costs for contractors etc. too.....
 
The 7 billion is for 2 phases of the line, let that be clear. You would be looking at $1 billion per KM which is absolutely nowhere near Toronto subway pricing, that is NYC pricing range.

Even the $7 billion for the 13 or so km 2 phase line is plenty extra, thats around $500 million per km compared to the Scarborough subway, which includes dealing with the SRT at $380 million per km.

If you look at the cost estimates from Metrolinx they have given themselves lots of room to work with. They have budgeted $1 billion for each AD2W line, and that seems way too high if you ask me, especially considering that they don't seem too interested in many new grade separations.
 
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Look at the pic for the area that is being studied for both Metrolinx and the city of Toronto, it only shows from the Bloor danforth line to the University line, if they are looking at building 2 phases, why are they only studying that portion?
 
Thats a good question to ask really. I get the feeling they want to phase it, having the second part open a few years after.

I'm certainly going to be asking about that at the meeting however, whenever that is. (its been delayed just to let everyone know)
 
I think it's imperative that the DRL includes an immediate western branch as well. The streetcars are a complete mess and development is choking the local roads.

How about we focus on the need for higher order transit in the western end instead of thinking about how to best further placate those from the east/north.
 
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