Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Northern Light]

From a Star article:

The project would include an expansion of the TTC’s Greenwood Yard to house the new rolling stock

If this is in the budget I missed it; and therefore assume it may have been in an answer in the lock-up.

This is a weird idea..........

An expansion? Which would have different gauged track; thereby needed its own maintenance building........and w/different track gauge....it needs a new dedicated connection to said yard.......

Ontario budget reveals locations for downtown relief line subway stations

Finance Minister Vic Fedeli has set “a target to have shovels in the ground by the end of next year.”

www.thestar.com

 

[Kitsune]

Shovels in the ground by end of 2020 .... that would definitely make a 2027 open date plausible.

 

[steveintoronto]

This is a weird idea..........

An expansion? Which would have different gauged track; thereby needed its own maintenance building........and w/different track gauge....it needs a new dedicated connection to said yard.......

Oh man...up the Ashbridge's Creek without a clue...if this doesn't scream "back of a napkin" (a used one) then nothing does.

Don't they have a grown-up that can do the talking? Someone had best send a cleaner to Metrolinx HQ tout-de-suite, the executive office have all shid themselves...

Unbelievable...well...I'll change that...'completely believable' with the Clown Collection...

But on the 'upside' it means they're considering this line (which will never be built as touted, so it's somewhat moot) will have ramps up to the LE line...and being the same gauge, and Transport Canada permitting, they can run a yard/maintenance depot down the line on Metrolinx tracks. Whitby maybe a bit far, or Mimico, but OHE wiring to either would herald the beginning of RER.

Sometimes the Law of Unintended Consequences pays off...

 

[salsa]

Shovels in the ground by end of 2020 .... that would definitely make a 2027 open date plausible.

But is "shovels in the ground by 2020" plausible too?

 

[steveintoronto]

But is "shovels in the ground by 2020" plausible too?

[...]
The province says it wants to build on design work done to date, but it’s unclear how much of the existing work could be repurposed.

TTC CEO Rick Leary said the province hasn’t given his agency enough information for his staff to be able to determine how much design work already completed could be used.

“I don’t know, to be honest with you. Because they don’t know what’s being proposed as well,” he said.

Leary said he was pleased with some aspects of the province’s plan, including the government’s recognition that a new line needs to be built to take pressure off the TTC’s crowded Line 1.

He couldn’t say whether the province’s 2027 planned opening date for the Ontario Line was realistic. Some experts have doubted the 15-kilometre line through the heart of Toronto could be built so quickly.

“There’s a lot more detail that needs to be known and understood to be honest with you.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...y-after-province-unveiled-its-own-vision.html

 

[syn]

Alignment is fine. My concern is undersizing - a la Canada Line - trainset and station size/infrastructure to hit the bare minimum - like if someone built Line 1 at half the station length and claim that you can satisfy all projected future needs simply by running the trains more frequently.

The extension to Ex could be designed as a branch line perhaps?

AoD

That's my concern as well.

I also feel like a great chance is being missed to get the DRL South-West complete. A transit connection to Ontario Place/Exhibition is great, but it seems like they could take it along Queen up to Dundas West instead. With this plan, it seems the portion between Bathurst and Dundas West will never be served by underground transit. This seems like a mistake in the grand scheme of things.

Overall, I can't help but feel there are still a lot of hurdles. How can they confirm funding will be secured from other levels? I seriously doubt they'll go at it alone.

 

[vic]

Turning down to Ontario Place / Exhibition seems a bit wasteful. Serve that area with RER/Smarttrack/whatever. Should be able to connect to it easily from the "Ontario", Bloor, Danforth, and YUS lines.

I'd rather have the Ontario Line go further west through the denser part of the city to serve the whole West End better.

 

[mdrejhon]

At least it seems existing DRL stations are kept, which means not all the work is not being thrown away. I really hope.

Instead of LRT type trains, what if the Ontario Line basically uses "light" versions of GO trains (single decker electrified, european-style light trains on traditional rail infrastructure) and ends up being fully subway sized bore anyway? Essentially a light RER of sorts, designed to also eventually go on Metrolinx tracks.

Eyes peeled on the proposed bore. The bore size will be the least boring topic. Pun intended.

It could run as an independent system until Transport Canada lets it run on Metrolinx tracks -- but what if this was the ulterior goal (to extend Ontario Line to Park Lawn!!!). It would be a decade or two after before the infrastructure converged, e.g. GO expansion switching to automatic-capable signalling by the 2040s.

What we Canadians call "light rail" (enhanced version of streetcar ancestry) is different from what some transit agencies in the world call "light rail" (lighter European style trainsets on traditioanl rail infrastructure) so this is the devil-in-the-details item I am curious of. This could make or break the attractiveness of the system.

 

[steveintoronto]

Now, what if the Ontario Line basically uses "light" versions of GO trains -- and ends up being fully subway sized bore anyway?

Eyes peeled on the proposed bore. The bore size will be the least boring topic. Pun intended.

That makes it 'diametrically opposed' if you can dig it whole. All tunnel vision aside, and remaining on track
"Now, what if the Ontario Line basically uses "light" versions of GO trains -- and ends up being fully subway sized bore anyway?" is an interesting way of looking at this. Taken further: 'RER EMU light' with perhaps third rail hybrid capability and slightly lighter motors and top speed from the fully mainline models, a la Class 700 and 710, vs the Class 717?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_700
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_717

The latter, even though a mainline consist, can fit into a third rail equipped 4.9 m tunnel with pantograph (for 25 kVAC) retracted. That's less than the 5.4 m bore that the TTC was planning for DRL.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=class+717

There are excellent answers already configured and being used in other cities right now. The Class 700 is in service running ATO (totally automatic, driver just opens and closes doors) through the core of London. The 700 max speed is 100 mph, the 717 is 85 mph, both with very high rates of acceleration.
British Rail Class 700 - Wikipedia
Main Line ATO Becomes a Reality | Rail Engineer

Thameslink trains will in future use the technology, developed by Siemens and operating on Network Rail’s new digital signalling system, to run between London St Pancras and London Blackfriars at a rate of a train every two to three minutes – a frequency never before achieved on Britain’s railways.
Automation will make this ‘core’ north-south connection across the capital the new heart of the region’s railway network. It will serve 80 more stations than today on 12 separate routes, helping create capacity for up to 60,000 more people in each peak and speeding journeys for hundreds of thousands of passengers.[...]

https://www.networkrail.co.uk/passengers-ride-uks-first-self-drive-mainline-train/

Youtube has many vids up on this.The answers are out there, but of course, the Fordgetmenots would be the last to realize it...[/QUOTE]

 

[JSF-1]

What are the odds this line uses Narrow Gauge tracks? I'm thinking in a way similar to what you see in say Tokyo where many lines use Narrow Guage but have a fair sized loading gauge.

 

[geoff strowger]

My view is that this "Ontario" line does not provide much relief to the Yonge line: it needs to go at least up to Don Mills station on the Sheppard line. The new signalling will help in improving the capacity of the Yonge line, but without this extension of the Ontario line, the proposed extension of the Yonge line to the south end of Richmond Hill will largely undo its benefits.

 

[44 North]

What are the odds this line uses Narrow Gauge tracks? I'm thinking in a way similar to what you see in say Tokyo where many lines use Narrow Guage but have a fair sized loading gauge.

I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up using TTC gauge and same third rail power system. Just as a narrower train. Benefit is that it could use Greenwood Yd, or travel nonrevenue on existing lines if need be.

Then again I don't believe most of this plan. I see it more as a wooing tactic so people support and don't question their "upload". Half expect seeing them push a subway to Wonderland before anything like this. But that's me.

 

[H4F33Z]

I live in Thorncliffe Park and i think the new subway will be great for the community! The neighbourhood is way too crowded and was pretty baren in terms of transit. But I'm concerned of how the subway will cross the west don valley (overlea bridge) and also the detrimental construction impact it would cause.

 

[ADRM]

From the Budget:

Note the stations at King/Bathurst and the angle to/from Queen/Spadina, the angle again to Exhibition/OP

Also note stations marked Leslieville and Flemingdon Park

There remains a station marked Sumach, but the drawing is inconclusive about the original or an alternate location.

Budget states their costing includes a yard, does not state location.

Ben Spurr noted that this is a preliminary map; officials said no decisions had been made on stations yet.

 

[rbt]

But is "shovels in the ground by 2020" plausible too?

Well, yes. "shovels in the ground" has typically meant preperation works such as utility moves and the DRL South plan is in good shape for that work.

Metrolinx also has the option of tendering 3 separate tunnel contracts (South, North, and West), and tendering Yonge to University (critical path section) station boxes early, and then issuing a large DBOFM in ~2021 for the rest of the work.