dunkalunk
Senior Member
Meanwhile in the Fantasy Map thread re: streetcar tunnel extension
Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter JasonParis
- Start date
crs1026
Superstar
[QUOTE="Toronto1, post: 1079995, member: 4256]It will have a terminus for the Queensway (not Queen) streetcar, for the King streetcar, and for 40 Junction bus. The 40 will be extended southward from Bloor Street to Queen Street and will provide local service on Roncesvalles in place of the 504. The 504's tracks won't be ripped up though due to the need to maintain access to the car barn. .[/QUOTE]
I'm not seeing the logic in taking 504 off Roncesvalles, especiall if street cars will use it anyways to accesa the barns. There is good ridership across the Queen intersection - why force a tranfer ?
A better solution would be to restore street cars on Dundas to Runnymede or beyond, with a centre of road boarding platform at Dundas West (like the old Bloor car at Yonge) thereby removing the need for streetcars and the 40 to loop at Dundas West. The current looping creates huge congestion on Dundas and affects timekeeping .
- Paul
I'm not seeing the logic in taking 504 off Roncesvalles, especiall if street cars will use it anyways to accesa the barns. There is good ridership across the Queen intersection - why force a tranfer ?
A better solution would be to restore street cars on Dundas to Runnymede or beyond, with a centre of road boarding platform at Dundas West (like the old Bloor car at Yonge) thereby removing the need for streetcars and the 40 to loop at Dundas West. The current looping creates huge congestion on Dundas and affects timekeeping .
- Paul
MisterF
Senior Member
Zoning is largely irrelevant in discussions like these. It's the Official Plan that dictates building form, density, etc. Zoning is merely an implementation tool. Without OP policy stating that buildings will be low rise, a zoning height limit can easily be changed. With strong OP policies in place to limit heights (and often a Secondary Plan for a specific area), the zoning becomes much more difficult to amend.I wish I believed in the zoning process. It's true that the entire Roncy corridor is zoned for 14M maximum height, but I can see Roncy-Queen as being proposed as a high rise location, especially if DRL or LRT goes there. If the developers get that, the dominoes will fall.
I'm a bit hyper about the possibility that the tracts of 2-3 story, treelined streets in the old City are more vulnerable than we recognize. If we had intensive development along Roncesvalles itself, it would drive a wedge down the middle of that district. You could see some form of build - even 3-4 story condo or development blocks - spreading westward to Parkside. Call me paranoid today, but you'll be calling me ahead of my time if it happens
A small amount of the land in that picture is zoned for employment, but much of it is zoned by specific by-law.....which leaves developers free to wheel and deal, with the very real threat to City Planning that the OMB won't care. So yes, I expect it will all go to condo's before long. That might actually trigger some interest in developing the employment lands south of the QEW.....especially if there were good transit linking to downtown business districts. Wouldn't it be great if people lived along the Queensway but worked within walking/cycling distance in the same part of town?
Having said that, I'm also very opposed to building residential so close to the Gardiner, but that ship has sailed.
- Paul
Official Plans can be amended as well, but OP amendments are tougher to justify and aren't as common.
I was responding more about Roncesvalles than the Queensway. Roncesvalles is very similar to Bloor in its lot layout and built form. I'm not convinced that these types of neighbourhoods face much more development pressure with a subway than without one.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
This is the same reason why an east-west tunnel under Union for SmartTrack/RER is likely infeasible as well.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
Anything's possible if you dig deep enough.
Taken from the Union Station Raild Corridor Capacity Studty, sourced here: http://stevemunro.ca/2011/12/02/union-station-rail-corridor-capacity/
Not saying I prefer this option, it would cost over a billion dollars. If connecting track and switches can be added to improve the capacity of through-running trains, then that would be a better option.
Last edited:
crs1026
Superstar
- Maintains 504 up Roncesvalles
- Reduces congestion at the Dundas West Loop
- Improves cohesiveness of transit along Dundas through the Junction district, gives it a direct connection to Line 2 and RER/ST eastwards and a 1-seat ride by 504 into the downtown
- Adds a connection to the west, in light of upcoming development west of the Humber
- Paul
Forgotten
Active Member
Here's a print screen of the proposed Queen subway map from DRLNow with stations identified:
Interestingly Keesemat's choice avoids the area with most of the tall buildings. She has always wanted projects like 260-322 King Street West to fail because the supplicants had the temerity to challenge her authority though it beats me what kind of grudge she has against the Ex. With the Planning Dept's report being kept top secret we can only speculate about the why.
Is she unhappy about the Argos moving in and ruining the turf? Does she hold a grudge against Muzik due to her past dealing with the mayor? Is she mad because she didn't manage tickets for the premiere of The Martian? Is she upset with the OMB and extending a petulant metaphorical thumb to their eye? I hope against hope that it isn't because she's trying to protect her baby of letting streetcars takeover King Street.
Is 2016 the year professionalism died? Stay tuned.
wolfewood
Active Member
I...what? Please tell me my internet sarcasm detector is off and I'm missing the joke here lol...
salsa
Senior Member
Still waiting for the year that your trolling will die.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
Member Bio
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2014
- Messages
- 2,867
- Reaction score
- 1,927
- Location
- Kay Gardner Beltline Trail
Don't feed the trolls.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Seeing that the western half of SmartTrack has completely dissolved, with that section only having 10 min frequencies, I wonder if there is now a business case to be made for bringing the Relief Line to Mt. Dennis (Eglinton) or beyond, via Dundas West Station, as SmartTrack's replacement.
For the Relief Line terminating at Dundas West, the YRNS forecasted low/moderate usage of 11,000 pphpd for 2031. The SmartTrack report showed demand of 11,500 pphpd, approaching Dundas West Station from the north, on SmartTrack including the western spur.
Obviously we can't directly compare these two reports with wildly different set of assumptions. But what this does show is that there is significant latent demand for a direct central west end to downtown rapid transit link. This is an idea that should explored in an official capacity in the relitavely near future, perhaps as soon as the completion of planning for the eastern Relief Line.
Also, tying the western Relief Line to a suburban subway could make the western RL easier to sell politically.
SmartTrack ridership forecasts: http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Managers Office/Intergovernmental Relations/Files/PDF/SmartTrack Ridership Forecasts Report.pdf
Yonge Relief Network Study: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf
DRLNow has more info about a potential western Relief Line: http://www.drlnow.ca/
For the Relief Line terminating at Dundas West, the YRNS forecasted low/moderate usage of 11,000 pphpd for 2031. The SmartTrack report showed demand of 11,500 pphpd, approaching Dundas West Station from the north, on SmartTrack including the western spur.
Obviously we can't directly compare these two reports with wildly different set of assumptions. But what this does show is that there is significant latent demand for a direct central west end to downtown rapid transit link. This is an idea that should explored in an official capacity in the relitavely near future, perhaps as soon as the completion of planning for the eastern Relief Line.
Also, tying the western Relief Line to a suburban subway could make the western RL easier to sell politically.
SmartTrack ridership forecasts: http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Managers Office/Intergovernmental Relations/Files/PDF/SmartTrack Ridership Forecasts Report.pdf
Yonge Relief Network Study: http://www.metrolinx.com/en/docs/pdf/board_agenda/20150625/2015-06-25_Yonge_Relief_Network_Study.pdf
DRLNow has more info about a potential western Relief Line: http://www.drlnow.ca/
Last edited:
crs1026
Superstar
The numbers certainly make that case. But.....
Having absolutely no technical expertise, I still can't help thinking "Naw.....that can't be right". I'm astounded at how much the numbers change between a 5 minute and a 10 minute headway.
A 5-minute headway means many people reach the platform with their train visible down the tracks. Subjectively, they experience "no wait" whatsover. A 10-minute headway certainly makes them experience a "wait".
Do people really hate platforms so much that the extra 5 minute wait can turn them off taking transit altogether? Would removing those 5 minutes of platform "pain" suck that many people away from their cars, when the overall trip by car might be longer and less convenient (parking etc)?
Having absolutely no technical expertise, I still can't help thinking "Naw.....that can't be right". I wonder what numbers a 7.5 minute headway would produce.
Numbers aside, the case for building the western DRL instead of ST might be built simply on relieving Union, as opposed to Bloor-Yonge or Bloor-University. Even the 10-minute ST numbers are a huge burden on Union Station.
- Paul
Palma
Senior Member
because people are used to having to wait just minutes for subways (2-3 usually perhaps .. During non peak you usually do not wait more than 5 min on average. Sure times its 6-7 min but I think the perception is it comes frequently that people may not be paying attention to how long they are waiting and are forgiving if it does not happen too often. I know when I need to wait anything over 5 min and especially 7 min, I start wondering why the delay and when you start seeing an increase in passengers coming
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
Yes, the parties are fiddling while Rome burns.
AoD
AoD