Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[ehlow]

I would definitely like to hear more specifics on how he plans to find the money. He's not ignorant of the transit world, so I would hope for an intelligent response.

He could be counting on provincial and federal money like for the LRTs. Byford was looking at the Federal Infrastructure Fund for DRL money. So when he says "keep taxes low" he might mean property taxes, which would make sense as a mayoral candidate.

 

[gweed123]

He could be counting on provincial and federal money like for the LRTs. Byford was looking at the Federal Infrastructure Fund for DRL money. So when he says "keep taxes low" he might mean property taxes, which would make sense as a mayoral candidate.

That's true. But where will the Provincial money be coming from? Still quite a few holes in his funding formula, which I'm hoping he'll elaborate on.

 

[King of Kensington]

And this is why we'll never get this subway line built if we elect an NDP government in Ontario:

www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/02/18/horwath_dares_wynne_to_force_election_over_taxes_and_tolls

It will be like 1990 all over again.

Andrea Horwath is not Bob Rae. She is an anti-tax populist who has moved away from social democratic principles. I should say that as a person who usually votes NDP I will not be doing so provincially at this time.

The Rae government for all its faults (i.e. the Social Contract) was good on transit expansion. Rae also understood that if you want better services, you have to pay for them. Better public services are paid for by middle income taxpayers and the rich. Horwath doesn't see the value of taxes to pay for public services, she views taxes as a populist tool to "punish" the "rich" ("rich" is putting it mildly, she means people making north of $500K a year, the top 1/3 of 1% or so). It's true that we should reject the snake-oil salesman's line of cutting corporate taxes to create jobs and investment, but it's just farcical to believe we can expand transit and increase general revenues and give "tax relief" to the "middle class" and "everyday folks" with $2 billion in corporate taxes and less than half a billion from 20,000 super-rich people.

It is the Harris crew that are responsible for the mess. I don't think it's fair to blame the Rae government, unless you're arguing Rae paved the way for Harris.

 

[ehlow]

And this is why we'll never get this subway line built if we elect an NDP government in Ontario:

www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/02/18/horwath_dares_wynne_to_force_election_over_taxes_and_tolls

It will be like 1990 all over again.

This may be off topic but Horwath's constant use of the term "families" and "middle class families" that she is trying to position herself as the champion & protector of is starting to get annoying. It's like she believes the more times she says that word the more support she'll get (which I guess may be true). It makes it seem as though single people don't exist or matter, don't pay taxes and don't vote.

 

[TFC]

That's true. But where will the Provincial money be coming from? Still quite a few holes in his funding formula, which I'm hoping he'll elaborate on.

The guy just filed his nomination papers today, give him some time to announce the exact details of his funding formula. He's got until October to do so.

 

[gweed123]

The guy just filed his nomination papers today, give him some time to announce the exact details of his funding formula. He's got until October to do so.

I fully acknowledge that. I'm not expecting a full breakdown right away, I'm just saying I'm hoping he'll actually elaborate on it, and not just stick to generalities and platitudes.

 

[ehlow]

I think all the candidates will say they will build subways (DRL for most, Sheppard for Ford) and keep taxes low. When asked how to pay for transit, they will point to the provincial and federal governments.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I don't know if any of you caught it but John Tory was on CityTV just now.

Paraphrasing but he basically said that he has plans to pay for the Yonge Relief Line Subway, it is his number one priority, he will lower taxes but has a plan to pay for the Relief Line regardless, when asked about new additional revenue tools he gave a non-specific answer other than repeating that any revenue tools he looks at won't be raising taxes, and he concluded with saying that he will disclose his transit funding plan in the future and that it was still Day 1 of his election campaign.

He also said that he is not touching the Scarborough B-D extension because it is already 'funded' for.

 

[ehlow]

I don't know if any of you caught it but John Tory was on CityTV just now.

Paraphrasing but he basically said that he has plans to pay for the Yonge Relief Line Subway, it is his number one priority, he will lower taxes but has a plan to pay for the Relief Line regardless, when asked about new additional revenue tools he gave a non-specific answer other than repeating that any revenue tools he looks at won't be raising taxes, and he concluded with saying that he will disclose his transit funding plan in the future and that it was still Day 1 of his election campaign.

He also said that he is not touching the Scarborough B-D extension because it is already 'funded' for.

I saw that. Stintz was on CBC as well. I doubt anybody else has said specifically how they would pay for transit yet either.

I'm a bit worried that the name "Yonge Relief Line" will be confusing since it doesn't run on Yonge.

 

[ehlow]

The DRL public meetings for next week are postponed apparently:
http://stevemunro.ca/?p=9231

 

[Adjei]

I don't know if any of you caught it but John Tory was on CityTV just now.

Paraphrasing but he basically said that he has plans to pay for the Yonge Relief Line Subway, it is his number one priority, he will lower taxes but has a plan to pay for the Relief Line regardless, when asked about new additional revenue tools he gave a non-specific answer other than repeating that any revenue tools he looks at won't be raising taxes, and he concluded with saying that he will disclose his transit funding plan in the future and that it was still Day 1 of his election campaign.

He also said that he is not touching the Scarborough B-D extension because it is already 'funded' for.

They have no other plan rather than depending on the province and maybe the feds to fund it. They will have someone else raise it so that they can say they didn't raise it.

I mean what other options do they have for funding?

Is not like Toronto has some surplus of billions of dollars lying around that no one knows about or that there are private companies willing to give us billions to build subways for free...

 

[Palma]

Well I think the only way to raise money to pay for the DRL is through what has been stated before - tolls, congestion taxes, etc in addition to tapping into those federal funds that are to go towards infrastructure projects. The government is after all conservative.

 

[cplchanb]

the city could sell development rights to developers who will incorporate subway stations into their designs and development. unfortunately though the planned corridor for the DRL is not really
prime condo development territory so the prospects do not look good. not to mention theres no existing condo development on the route except for the city core. sure it can help relieve the pressure on yonge but this subway will never make money. if you look at other metros and lrts in europe and asia you can clearly see that most stations are incorporated into large scale development and condos. they have connections to all the major areas around the city (including the airport.........) and they are not relying on substantial government subsidies to keep them alive. all the stations along the allen expwy save yorkdale are all poorly thought out, underdeveloped and a waste of money, and from the looks of it, the DRL will not be making any money for TTC even if they somehow grew the money off of trees to pay for it. long story short, the ttc and the city should stop trying to rely on taxes and govt lifelines and turn to avenues that make more business sense

 

[gweed123]

I'm a bit worried that the name "Yonge Relief Line" will be confusing since it doesn't run on Yonge.

Better than an uninformed negative reactionary response because of the word "downtown", in my opinion. At least "Yonge" doesn't evoke a negative reaction in Nayshun types.

 

[Adjei]

the city could sell development rights to developers who will incorporate subway stations into their designs and development. unfortunately though the planned corridor for the DRL is not really
prime condo development territory so the prospects do not look good. not to mention theres no existing condo development on the route except for the city core. sure it can help relieve the pressure on yonge but this subway will never make money. if you look at other metros and lrts in europe and asia you can clearly see that most stations are incorporated into large scale development and condos. they have connections to all the major areas around the city (including the airport.........) and they are not relying on substantial government subsidies to keep them alive. all the stations along the allen expwy save yorkdale are all poorly thought out, underdeveloped and a waste of money, and from the looks of it, the DRL will not be making any money for TTC even if they somehow grew the money off of trees to pay for it. long story short, the ttc and the city should stop trying to rely on taxes and govt lifelines and turn to avenues that make more business sense

How many transit systems are not relying on government subsidies? Most transit systems worldwide need government subsidies. It's not some Toronto phenomenon.