Bogtrotter
Senior Member
I say that every morning when the alarm goes off.
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Toronto/Montreal comparisons (ain't pretty...)
- Thread starter Electrify
- Start date
I say that every morning when the alarm goes off.
old boy
Senior Member
It's worse when you work the night shift.
junctionist
Senior Member
Though now it seems as though Quebec has found their place by taking more in control of their economy and keeping their culture vital. The era of crisis may be over and they don't seem to be losing anything. Now that Toronto is no longer competing with Montreal for supremacy, the bitterness may slowly fade. After all, Toronto is now the national metropolis in a position to respect and consume Quebecois culture without compromising its own cultural and economic ambitions. Artists, professionals, and entrepreneurs from Quebec can only enjoy the economic power of Canada's national metropolis. Is resentment appropriate for them when they're in a position to benefit?
OttoSchloss
Active Member
Truthfully I find French Canadians lovely people; if you want bitterness and anti-Toronto sentiment dial up an anglo-Montrealer.
TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Which brings me to the point that I wish Toronto had a larger and more vibrant french speaking population. My friend works in the french language school board, so I am aware there is a scene, if a little bit underground. I think the anti-francophone culture here also has died down. Although it does flare up sometimes when you talk to anglo-canadians particularly in the suburbs.
PUTOTO
Active Member
About a month ago, I was in a bank near Pape Station. (I was just waiting for my friend using a banking machine.)
I happened to be standing right beside the entrance/exit door, and I opened the door for a woman trying to go out.
After she passed thru the door she said
"Merci"
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adma
Superstar
Was there ever much of an "anti-francophone culture" in Toronto? Sounds more like a rural/small-town redneck thing to me. (Besides, Toronto never really had much of a francophone culture to be "anti"--indeed, these days, whatever passes for a "francophone culture" around these parts tends to be more Afro-Caribbean than Franco-Quebecois)
nfitz
Superstar
LOL! Quoted for truth ...
Of course Anglos have to visit Toronto frequently ... all their friends moved there.
I often hear French in the street, on the streetcar and subway. And in stores. At least between people who know each other. Not every day ... but every couple of weeks or so ... if not more if I'm out more.
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Observer Walt
Senior Member
Regarding cold and rude anglophones, some of that is true, but pertains mainly to the older generation. I don't think this pertains to anyone under 40 or 50, who are completely bilingual and accepting of the bilingual nature of Montreal, which actually makes for a more interesting city to live in.
In my experience your second statement is quite true. I love visiting Montreal but might not want to live there with the much more politicized atmosphere than here.
However, having said that ... My own experience, as someone who has visited Montreal roughly once per year for perhaps 20 years, for both business and personal reasons, is that the atmosphere is much more relaxed now than even ten years ago. Separatism has essentially died, as a political fact (probably not as an intellectual idea). Most francophones, in Montreal at least, can and will speak English in daily conversation quite readily. Much less energy is being expended on the old divisions. My own take, for what it's worth, is that younger francophones, especially, are now confident enough that they don't find it necessary to be constantly on guard for an erosion of their rights, linguistic and otherwise, or taking offense at every small perceived slight. The presence of anglophones is no longer taken as a threat. Or to say it another way, the French language and culture are so firmly in place that they are no longer felt to be at risk.
Now if they could just fix their #$*!!^ infrastructure!
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Jonny5
Senior Member
And how.
In the news today:
1 hurt as Montreal overpass sheds concrete
New Montreal East Commuter Train Stalls
denfromoakvillemilton
Senior Member
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Montreal has hosted the world's fair and olympics. We have not.
OttoSchloss
Active Member
On holiday weekends in the summer when I'm in the city, because the invites to cottages have unfortunately gone missing in the mail, I find a lot of Quebecois actually do visit Toronto in large numbers.
But if you want to meet and have a conversation with a Torontonian, you'd still probably have to go to Montreal to do it.
But if you want to meet and have a conversation with a Torontonian, you'd still probably have to go to Montreal to do it.
Bogtrotter
Senior Member
...and won't be for a VERY long time by the sounds of it! I prefer Toronto to live in, at least right now, but MTL is a great place to visit and I'm really happy things are looking up for my former city.
Eug
Senior Member
I wonder how many people have lived in Montreal. I lived there for six years.
1) Montreal has nicer buildings.
2) Montreal has better dressed people. You can often tell who the out-of-towners are at university simply by their wardrobe.
3) Downtown Montreal is not a great place to learn French. Speak French with an English accent and everyone immediately switches to English.
4) The Francophone outskirts of Montreal are not great places to speak French with an English accent. If you do, you may come across people that will treat you like garbage.
5) The economy sucks. The job market is much worse in general. Furthermore, pay for many if not most jobs is much lower than Toronto.
6) Taxes are significantly higher.
7) Housing is cheaper.
8) Better lower priced Bistro food on average, but for example Asian food is way better in Toronto. Bring your own wine places are a great idea, that failed miserably in Toronto.
9) Booze is available at corner stores, but there isn't drunken rioting everywhere. Half-sized wine bottles are commonplace, which is great too.
10) If you think car traffic is bad in Toronto, it's much, much worse in Montreal. The metro system is better though.
11) It's much colder in Montreal in the winter. It's not as humid in the summer.
12) The municipal and provincial bureaucracy is terrible, and some disgruntled goverment employees don't have much patience for non-native French speakers. My sis who speaks relatively fluently but with an obvious English accent would get government workers hanging up on her when she (politely) questioned them about certain tax issues, etc. (She lived there about as long as I did, albeit at a different time.)
13) Montrealers think their city is great. Torontonians think they're the centre of the universe. Downtown Torontonians think the city ends at Dufferin or whatever.
So I think Montreal is a cool city, but few of the out-of-province people I know who studied there actually stayed there, partially because of the politics and partially for financial reasons. In fact, some of the Francophones I know moved out too, to Toronto, because of the lower Ontario taxes and better pay. I won't say what I do for a living, but for my particular job, I make roughly 50% more than I would in Montreal. Yes you read that right - 50% more.
1) Montreal has nicer buildings.
2) Montreal has better dressed people. You can often tell who the out-of-towners are at university simply by their wardrobe.
3) Downtown Montreal is not a great place to learn French. Speak French with an English accent and everyone immediately switches to English.
4) The Francophone outskirts of Montreal are not great places to speak French with an English accent. If you do, you may come across people that will treat you like garbage.
5) The economy sucks. The job market is much worse in general. Furthermore, pay for many if not most jobs is much lower than Toronto.
6) Taxes are significantly higher.
7) Housing is cheaper.
8) Better lower priced Bistro food on average, but for example Asian food is way better in Toronto. Bring your own wine places are a great idea, that failed miserably in Toronto.
9) Booze is available at corner stores, but there isn't drunken rioting everywhere. Half-sized wine bottles are commonplace, which is great too.
10) If you think car traffic is bad in Toronto, it's much, much worse in Montreal. The metro system is better though.
11) It's much colder in Montreal in the winter. It's not as humid in the summer.
12) The municipal and provincial bureaucracy is terrible, and some disgruntled goverment employees don't have much patience for non-native French speakers. My sis who speaks relatively fluently but with an obvious English accent would get government workers hanging up on her when she (politely) questioned them about certain tax issues, etc. (She lived there about as long as I did, albeit at a different time.)
13) Montrealers think their city is great. Torontonians think they're the centre of the universe. Downtown Torontonians think the city ends at Dufferin or whatever.
So I think Montreal is a cool city, but few of the out-of-province people I know who studied there actually stayed there, partially because of the politics and partially for financial reasons. In fact, some of the Francophones I know moved out too, to Toronto, because of the lower Ontario taxes and better pay. I won't say what I do for a living, but for my particular job, I make roughly 50% more than I would in Montreal. Yes you read that right - 50% more.
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Tacoma
Active Member
That French food is better in MTL and Asian food is better in TOR makes sense just based on the demographics. BYOB in Montreal is only allowed if the restaurant is not licensed. BYO in Toronto has not failed miserably. I do it all the time. As a wine collector intimate with wine prices, I find it's still a better deal than ordering off the list at 300% or higher markup at most restaurants.
I find the opposite and so to my friends/colleagues in MTL who visit here. MTL is bad usually only during rush hour, but Toronto is worse and getting worse year by year with congested traffic pratically all day long (have you tried going up/down the DVP at, say, 2pm?). Someone told me Toronto is getting 100,000 new car registration every year and growing due to population growth. At the rate we're going, total gridlock is just around the corner.
It's only a few degrees colder in Montreal; about same as Toronto is a few degrees colder than NYC. Toronto has less snow than MTL.
All in all, they're both very different cities. Toronto is much bigger and more ethnically diverse. MTL street scene during the summer is much better. They have F1, we have TIFF. Not one is better than the other, just different, IMHO.