Toronto/Montreal comparisons (ain't pretty...)

[Eug]

As a wine collector intimate with wine prices, I find it's still a better deal than ordering off the list at 300% or higher markup at most restaurants.

Maybe, but a $60 corking fee at some restaurants is still ludicrous.

I find the opposite and so to my friends/colleagues in MTL who visit here. MTL is bad usually only during rush hour

But it's really, really bad during rush hour. eg. An hour just to get to the South Shore from downtown.

It's only a few degrees colder in Montreal; about same as Toronto is a few degrees colder than NYC. Toronto has less snow than MTL.

All in all, they're both very different cities. Toronto is much bigger and more ethnically diverse. MTL street scene during the summer is much better. They have F1, we have TIFF. Not one is better than the other, just different, IMHO.

I agree for the most part. The really bad part of Montreal is the politics and the economy.

 

[nfitz]

Maybe, but a $60 corking fee at some restaurants is still ludicrous.

What???

When I've brought my own bottle to a restaurant in Montreal, I've never paid a corking fee!

The one thing where Toronto really suffers, is the bizarre liquor laws.

 

[Eug]

What???

When I've brought my own bottle to a restaurant in Montreal, I've never paid a corking fee!

The one thing where Toronto really suffers, is the bizarre liquor laws.

Corking fee is in Toronto. The max I've seen is $60. Mind you that was at Susur, which no longer exists. I believe $40 or $50 corking fees still do exist though at some restaurants.

I like food, and sometimes I'm willing to spend $$$ on that food. However, I don't appreciate wine anywhere near as much as I'm not much of a drinker. I'd love to be able to buy say a $35 bottle of wine to take to a nice restaurant, and then only have to pay say a $10-15 corking fee, not a $40 corking fee.

Where this would work though is you have a $100 wine. The corking fee makes it cheaper to bring your own wine, but not at the lower end of the scale.

 

[Eug]

List of BYOW restaurants in Toronto:

http://www.bringmywine.ca/toronto/

Most of the expensive restaurants charge a $30-40 corking fee. It seems my Susur example was an exception at $60, but there is at least one $50 restaurant on the list.

OTOH, there are a couple of that charge < $5, at least on certain days.

P.S. I was amused to see Congee Queen with their $10 corking fee. I don't think I've EVER seen anyone drink wine there.

 

[Urban Shocker]

Restaurants make a large proportion of their profit from marking-up wine, so a corkage fee that reflects how much they'll lose and which may deter many customers from bringing their own bottles is logical.

 

[Eug]

Restaurants make a large proportion of their profit from marking-up wine, so a corkage fee that reflects how much they'll lose and which may deter many customers from bringing their own bottles is logical.

Indeed, and it sucks. But also, the corking fee is a flat rate, and not appropriate for their cheaper wines.

So, either I'm forced to get to their $15 wine for $45, or else I'll get no wine at all, or maybe just a glass. Or, I'll just go elsewhere. The French (in France) have it right in this regard for wines they sell in restaurants. They do mark up their wines, but almost always have a very good house wine for a reasonable price. Toronto, not so much.

 

[gabe]

Alcohol in general is ridiculously expensive in this province. Those Australian critter wines sell for 5 bucks in Buffalo NY, here they cost about $12!!!

 

[MisterF]

^There was a poll recently that showed something like 3/4 of Ontarians support buying alcohol in corner stores. The most support was in Eastern Ontario. Seems that the more people are exposed to relaxed liquor laws, the less fearful of them they are.

However, having said that ... My own experience, as someone who has visited Montreal roughly once per year for perhaps 20 years, for both business and personal reasons, is that the atmosphere is much more relaxed now than even ten years ago. Separatism has essentially died, as a political fact (probably not as an intellectual idea). Most francophones, in Montreal at least, can and will speak English in daily conversation quite readily. Much less energy is being expended on the old divisions. My own take, for what it's worth, is that younger francophones, especially, are now confident enough that they don't find it necessary to be constantly on guard for an erosion of their rights, linguistic and otherwise, or taking offense at every small perceived slight. The presence of anglophones is no longer taken as a threat. Or to say it another way, the French language and culture are so firmly in place that they are no longer felt to be at risk.

I've noticed that too, about Quebec in general. Separatism was a product of the Quiet Revolution and a reaction to Anglo dominance. Now that French has a much more secure place in Quebec society and business the resentment to the rest of Canada has died down. I think the idea of an independent Quebec is going to fade as Montreal gets more comfortable with its place in Canada.

Looking forward to going to Montreal in a few months, it's been too long.

 

[Red October]

Montreal has hosted the world's fair and olympics. We have not.

Montreal was relevant in the world back then, Toronto was not yet.

I also must add that they bombed hosting the Olympics to a hilarious degree.

 

[Danielinthecity]

As opposed to any other city on the planet?
Really, people think that in Paris they get on the bus and everyone is miggling with eachother even though they've never met.

Explain to me King East how is Toronto more segregated then Montreal. This comes as a surprise to me who has witnessed and been part of several racial insults especially in school and by teachers, we didn't get our gym teacher fired because he smelled funny.

And you really don't understand what i mean by the Philipino comment. Talk to a few of them next time you go there.

Hi, Thanos...I'm in the process of reading through 'all' this thread (taking a break and leapfrogging a bit)...some good points as usual...just wondering what you meant by Filipinos...as I know this is an older post I'm asking about you can email personally if you want via UT...I'm curious b/c I did a paper years ago involving Filipino obedieance/culture...

 

[Danielinthecity]

Hi, Thanos...I'm in the process of reading through 'all' this thread (taking a break and leapfrogging a bit)...some good points as usual...just wondering what you meant by Filipinos...as I know this is an older post I'm asking about you can email personally if you want via UT...I'm curious b/c I did a paper years ago involving Filipino obedieance/culture...

Actually I just realized...why didn't 'I' just email you personally myself...(sorry mods and other UT'ers for straying off topic)...

 

[Irishmonk]

Montreal was relevant in the world back then, Toronto was not yet.

I also must add that they bombed hosting the Olympics to a hilarious degree.

And yet, that Olympics produced so many iconic athletes. (Bruce Jenner, Nadia Comaneci, Alberto Juantorena, Lasse Viren, Sugar Ray Leonard...oh, and Greg Joy--history's greatest silver medalist!)

 

[johnwood]

It's not an argument, it's the way it is in Montreal. Things are improving though very slowly.

http://montreal.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20100305/mtl_garage_collapse_report100305/20100305/?hub=MontrealHome

What that article doesn't say is the hundreds of garages that were inspected afterwards and found to be below standards.
I know quite a few people who work for or are associated with the regie du batiment. They are severally understaffed and landlords have known this and take advantage.
It took the province to step for the city to start paying more attention to the Ville Marie autoroute and the Turcto interchange.

"I wouldn't hesitate to look to Montreal for ideas like how to design a subway station because they truly perfected the art and didn't bankrupt themselves doing so."

Again, Montreal's long term debt is more than double Toronto's with half the revenue. They are going down an unsustainable path.

"We're quite fortunate to have Montreal as a second city in Canada"

I'd go one step further. Canadians are lucky to have such great cities like Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary, Quebec City, Ottawa.

Don't forget Winnipeg!

 

[adma]

And yet, that Olympics produced so many iconic athletes. (Bruce Jenner, Nadia Comaneci, Alberto Juantorena, Lasse Viren, Sugar Ray Leonard...oh, and Greg Joy--history's greatest silver medalist!)

None of them Canadian. Which kinda fed the "bombed hosting the Olympics" part.

 

[Irishmonk]

If it hadn't been for the East German "ladies" in the pool Canada would've had a respectable haul for a small, first time hosting an Olympics, country.