Toronto Maple Leaf Square | 185.92m | 54s | Lanterra | KPMB

I really like the split personality podium...it's 50% less oppressive than typical full-block projects. Bonus points for good intentions.
 
Luna, Telus, West Harbour City, MLS, and Success are visible from Humber Bay Park in the west end.

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Great comparison shots Big Daddy... also notice there's no RBC Centre in the background. It was barely off the ground.
 
^ your right - if you look close you can just see the construction crane rising from RBC site.

That photo goes to show that the REAL barrier from downtown to the lakeshore is not the Gardiner.....it’s the damned railway tracks! You can easily get back and forth under the elevated expressway but getting past the railway tracks is not so easy at all. There are only a couple of tunnels connecting the areas south of the tracks to the "downtown". If you want to connect the downtown to the lakefront, don’t tear down the Gardiner, relocate the tracks OR allow developers to build over them.
 
Big Daddy said:
That photo goes to show that the REAL barrier from downtown to the lakeshore is not the Gardiner.....it’s the damned railway tracks! You can easily get back and forth under the elevated expressway but getting past the railway tracks is not so easy at all. There are only a couple of tunnels connecting the areas south of the tracks to the "downtown". If you want to connect the downtown to the lakefront, don’t tear down the Gardiner, relocate the tracks OR allow developers to build over them.
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The Gardiner is a barrier. Its ramps and high concentration of vehicles making turns in every direcetion are intimidating to many pedestrians and cyclists. Once a bridge or underpass is built crossing the railway, the pedestrian is isolated from the trains.
 
Big Daddy said:
^ your right - if you look close you can just see the construction crane rising from RBC site.

That photo goes to show that the REAL barrier from downtown to the lakeshore is not the Gardiner.....it’s the damned railway tracks! You can easily get back and forth under the elevated expressway but getting past the railway tracks is not so easy at all. There are only a couple of tunnels connecting the areas south of the tracks to the "downtown". If you want to connect the downtown to the lakefront, don’t tear down the Gardiner, relocate the tracks OR allow developers to build over them.
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When you're walking under the rail tracks you can do it on both sides of the street and you can get through it very quickly, with nothing to slow you down or block your way. When you cross under the Gardiner, you need to walk on only, the east side because frequently it is forbidden to cross on the wast side (Spadina, Jarvis) , so you have to wait for the light, then cross west to east. Then you need to wait for the light to cross south, with very fast moving cars splashing dirty slush on you. (in winter) Now you need to cross 4 lanes of traffic and of course, now you are only in the middle part. Now you have 4 more lanes to cross as you wait for a variety of turning lights and cars going in different lanes at different times. Now if you're heading to Loblaws, you need to cross back to the west side. It's a LONG wait for the lights to change down on Lakeshore, so please don't give me this crap that the rail underpass is more of a barrier than the Gardiner/Lakeshore. IT'S NOT! That's a hell of a lot of crossing just to get under a frickin' highway! I live one block from the Gardiner and I hate crossing under there. Hell, I'll take 2 rail underpasses, than one Gardiner. (Not to mention all the dust, fumes and noise coming off the Gardiner. I'm just talking in terms of time and physical barrier) It's amazing how people who use the highway will say anything to justify it's existence, even if it's not true.
 
Torontovibe said:
When you're walking under the rail tracks you can do it on both sides of the street and you can get through it very quickly, with nothing to slow you down or block your way. When you cross under the Gardiner, you need to walk on only, the east side because frequently it is forbidden to cross on the wast side (Spadina, Jarvis) , so you have to wait for the light, then cross west to east. Then you need to wait for the light to cross south, with very fast moving cars splashing dirty slush on you. (in winter) Now you need to cross 4 lanes of traffic and of course, now you are only in the middle part. Now you have 4 more lanes to cross as you wait for a variety of turning lights and cars going in different lanes at different times. Now if you're heading to Loblaws, you need to cross back to the west side. It's a LONG wait for the lights to change down on Lakeshore, so please don't give me this crap that the rail underpass is more of a barrier than the Gardiner/Lakeshore. IT'S NOT! That's a hell of a lot of crossing just to get under a frickin' highway! I live one block from the Gardiner and I hate crossing under there. Hell, I'll take 2 rail underpasses, than one Gardiner. (Not to mention all the dust, fumes and noise coming off the Gardiner. I'm just talking in terms of time and physical barrier) It's amazing how people who use the highway will say anything to justify it's existence, even if it's not true.
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As you've explained it the real barrier is not the Gardiner it is Lakeshore Blvd and since any talk of eliminating the Gardiner almost always includes plans to widen the Lakeshore, pedestrians would be worse off with the loss of the highway not better.
 
Art Vandelay said:
As you've explained it the real barrier is not the Gardiner it is Lakeshore Blvd and since any talk of eliminating the Gardiner almost always includes plans to widen the Lakeshore, pedestrians would be worse off with the loss of the highway not better.
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Yeah, definitely, it's Lakeshore and the Gardiner. Lakeshore is more of the physical barrier but the Gardiner is the visual barrier. Put them both together and you have the double whammy. The railway underpass makes things even worse but at least they can be made more attractive and even useful for a moderate price. (Not that the city wants to spend any money) They can at least use a nice pain job and some decent lighting, which wouldn't cost much.
I'd like to see them enclosed, like an arcade, and used as a retail corridor/arcade. That whole area from Front to Queens Quay needs some creative solutions that focus on both function and aesthetics and not just how to move cars faster. We need to find a way to get (most) cars out of downtown.
 
the logical future of the gardiner is to shift to a tunnel.. and that frees up more room on he surface even with the lakeshore existing.
 
Torontovibe said:
Yeah, definitely, it's Lakeshore and the Gardiner. Lakeshore is more of the physical barrier but the Gardiner is the visual barrier. Put them both together and you have the double whammy. The railway underpass makes things even worse but at least they can be made more attractive and even useful for a moderate price. (Not that the city wants to spend any money) They can at least use a nice pain job and some decent lighting, which wouldn't cost much.
I'd like to see them enclosed, like an arcade, and used as a retail corridor/arcade. That whole area from Front to Queens Quay needs some creative solutions that focus on both function and aesthetics and not just how to move cars faster. We need to find a way to get (most) cars out of downtown.
Click to expand...

Getting rid of the Gardiner only to dump that traffic on surface streets is not the answer and as there will always be a need to move vehicle traffic in and out of the downtown better that it not be on the same grade as pedestrians. The visual barrier is being swallowed by a sea of highrise so I don't see that as being a major problem. You have made some valid points on pedestrian traffic. It would seem to me that small changes could be made to improve pedestrian flow. The elimination of the minor ramp from York Street south to Lakeshore West is a good example. Other minor changes could deliver big results. The last thing Toronto needs is its own big dig.
 
some great pics everyone. i drove by on the gardiner today--twice, and it was unbelievable looking at the size of the expanding core (even though, i live downtown, seeing these buildings up close still makes me excited).

and yes, NO MORE gardiner talk in this thread. in the past, i've made the mistake myself and i have come to realize how annoying it is to have a thread clogged with irrelevant info.
 
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