Toronto M2M Condos | 129.9m | 40s | Aoyuan | Wallman Architects

maestro said:
That's unfortunate. I don't like this development. I appreciate the curtain wall. I mean this is Class AA curtain wall. It's probably the best on a residential tower ever in Toronto.
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It's quite good, yeah. I really wish Jangho didn't end up the fiasco it did as it was key to bringing down curtain wall prices and allowing more projects to spec it.
 
ProjectEnd said:
Yes, but unlocking it by removing the 'H' makes the listing that much more appetizing for potential buyers. Hence the sign.
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I am not familiar with Toronot's development process. What does it mean by "lifting Holding (H)"? Does it mean removing restrictions on what the previous developer (Aoyuan) has planned?
 
homedepotbob said:
I am not familiar with Toronot's development process. What does it mean by "lifting Holding (H)"? Does it mean removing restrictions on what the previous developer (Aoyuan) has planned?
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H is a holding by-law which makes approved zoning conditional on certain things being achieved.

These may be items for which a developer is responsible such as completing a new street or a new sewer under same; or it may be something public (sewers and roads are again good examples). It could also be a study assess the needs for such things.

There are other servicing items (water supply, electricity supply etc etc.) and other types of obligations as well.

Lifting the 'H' generally means those conditions have been fulfilled and/or he developer is seeking relief from fulfilling them and that the zoning is now in full force and effect.
 
sunnyraytoronto said:
Aoyuan M2M Phase 1 is almost done,...
- South Tower occupancy likely start October or November 2023
- North Tower occupancy early in New Year (Feburary?)
- H-Mart likely get Building Permit in Spring, Summer 2024 and opening late 2024?
- Prior to City issuing Building Permits, Section 42 Parkland Dedication and Section 37 Community Benefits are due via Land Conveyance and/or Monetary Deposit of equal value,.... if Developer don't pay, Developer don't play! This is City Policy for all Developments!,..... thus, City has land and renovation cost for half the Park, half the Community Centre and half the Non-Profit Daycare,... as the Project progresses,.... as Developer build the required Section 37 Community Benefit and Section 42 Parkland Dedication amenities, those Deposit money are forwarded back to the Developer in stages to pay for the construction of those amenities when condition/performance are met.
- NOTE: When project starts, all the Financing are in place to ensure the project completes,... so Phase 1 will complete regardless of what happens to Aoyuan China, Aoyuan Canada, M2M!

Aoyuan M2M Phase 2
- Partial Permit issued for Shoring & Foundation - NOT started!
*** Need to watch for digging to start on Phase 2 site
- Building Permit applied for in December 2021 - not issued yet! Why???
*** Once Building Permits are issued, we'll know City have conveyance of all land and monetary deposits for Section 37 Community Benefit and Section 42 Parkland Dedication (Park, Community Centre and Non-Profit Daycare)!

Aoyuan M2M Phase 3
- Development Application that converted SilverCore approved 10-storey with less than 100 units to 34-storey with almost 500 units increasing overall site Density from 3.6 to 4.6FSI. Sec 37 & 42 on the delta to be determined.

Phase 2 & 3 are up for grabs,... new Developer can keep Aoyuan Phase 2 approvals but would have to redesign slightly since original Developer owns the design (as was done with Ellie-Condo when Centrium went belly up and G-Group stepped in),.... Phase 3 is seeking approvals,....
Once sold to New Developer - new Developer could also abandon both Phase 2 & 3 to start from scratch hoping for more height and density,....
- Community would want to keep the approved Phase 2 (New Developer needs to do minor change to exterior & interior design since original belongs to Aoyuan). The original Section 37 Community Benefit and Section 42 Parkland Dedication for Silvercore Newtonbrook Plaza Redevelopment was negotiated by former Cllr David Shiner - who has reputation for getting highest Section 37 Community Benefit rates per unit! Cllr Filion placed Community Centre and Non-Profit Daycare into Phase 2 Podium so open space of Park would be larger. Current rates are lower.
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Phase 1 , South Tower occupancy for lower floors is set for March 2024. I've been inside recently and there are units that still aren't even built yet on the lower floors. I think it'll be delayed though.
 
123GTA123 said:
Phase 1 , South Tower occupancy for lower floors is set for March 2024. I've been inside recently and there are units that still aren't even built yet on the lower floors. I think it'll be delayed though.
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How's the quality inside the building/common area?
I wondered about the percentage of units they can complete. Maybe some people will not be able to get the financing.
 
homedepotbob said:
Maybe some people will not be able to get the financing.
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More likely,... maybe Aoyuan Canada "not ae able to get financing"! But seriously, all financing set at beginning of project/phase,... and distributed once stages/goals are reached,... here, with raising interest rates and Aoyuan China situation,... it'll be tough for Aoyuan Canada to get further financing, so likely cutting cost by avoiding overtime or switching out trade professionals in favour of general labourers. I suspect this is where the delays are coming from,...
 
homedepotbob said:
How's the quality inside the building/common area?
I wondered about the percentage of units they can complete. Maybe some people will not be able to get the financing.
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Lobby still has construction to do as well as hallways for the unit. Amenities probably won't be open for another year even after occupancy, from what I could tell, which isn't unusual considering the scale of what it's in the building. Units itself remain largely unfinished, even on the lower floors with Spring 2024 occupancy. Can't really say since to much on build quality since its nowhere close to the finished product, Aoyuan decided to do their PDI at an extremely early stage. Honestly, expecting alot of construction to go on until even the late summer since there's going to be an slowdown during the Winter.

Edit: Financing point is moot for Developer at this point, as they sold 99% of units and nearing occupancy stage. Future Phases for Aoyuan could look grim though.
 
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Amelia Pollard and Alice Huang, Bloomberg News
Dec 20, 2023

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(Bloomberg) -- China Aoyuan Group Ltd. filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy in New York on Wednesday, a move by the defaulted property developer to seek US court recognition for its offshore debt restructuring and ward off litigation.
The Guangzhou-based developer, which had about $6 billion of total offshore interest-bearing liabilities as of the end of 2022, is undergoing restructuring in Hong Kong, Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands after deciding last year to forgo paying debt.
Can someone tell me if this would affected M2M T1 ?
 
Sadcondoowner said:
Amelia Pollard and Alice Huang, Bloomberg News
Dec 20, 2023

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(Bloomberg) -- China Aoyuan Group Ltd. filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy in New York on Wednesday, a move by the defaulted property developer to seek US court recognition for its offshore debt restructuring and ward off litigation.
The Guangzhou-based developer, which had about $6 billion of total offshore interest-bearing liabilities as of the end of 2022, is undergoing restructuring in Hong Kong, Cayman Islands and the British Virgin Islands after deciding last year to forgo paying debt.
Can someone tell me if this would affected M2M T1 ?
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It should be okay since it is only bankruptcy protection when they are buying time for debt restructuring.

But don't be surprised if Aoyuan sells M2M to another developer before closing. But until now till official closing, you won't be able to sleep well for sure.
 
homedepotbob said:
It should be okay since it is only bankruptcy protection when they are buying time for debt restructuring.

But don't be surprised if Aoyuan sells M2M to another developer before closing. But until now till official closing, you won't be able to sleep well for sure.
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Err,... Aoyuan has been ordered to liquidate all their Oversea assets,... including Canada.

Once a Construction project starts, financing is set to completion,.... here, M2M Phase 1 has financing to complete - and at this stage, not likely for another Developer to take over Phase 1.

M2M Phase 2 & 3,... err, their sites are being marketed to other Developers as part of Aoyuan's Oversea liquidation process.
 
Is M2M finished yet?
It will be interesting to hear the homeowner's feedback on the project.

Not sure about Aoyuan Canada future at this point.
 
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