Lower Simcoe Ramp | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

Neutrino

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So why can't Toronto do the same? Who cares if it's not cold enough? Salt is horrific. Plus we're digging so much with all the condos that we'll have enough sand for several millennia.
 

Northern Light

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I give very little hope these trees will be around in a few years.
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Salt concerns aside, these are fairly decent planting conditions.

What disturbs me from you photos is how severely the roots on those trees were cut.

This always happens (root cuts) when trees are transplanted, but that's more severe that usual.

I can guarantee you that tree in the one pic has lost over 80% of its roots!

I would reluctantly accept 50-60% as normative in such situations......over 80% is asking a hell of a lot of that tree.

If that tree is alive next summer, and there's no drought, it will be fine....but I give you only a 50% chance of its surviving winter.
 

Northern Light

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So why can't Toronto do the same? Who cares if it's not cold enough? Salt is horrific. Plus we're digging so much with all the condos that we'll have enough sand for several millennia.

There are also other options. The strategic application of snow melt tech (heating) is very useful.

You don't need to do roads on a blanket basis.

Use it at bus stops, around gutters/drains, and on steep inclines.

That will cut back the number of times salt or sand needs to be applied by at least 1/2
 

Northern Light

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How many winters until the salt kills the trees? I say 1.

If thee was curbside parking, the salt load from that side would probably be quite managable given that the planters are slightly set-in from the curb and have a meangingful lip on that side.

Because this is a high-volume road, and there will not be curbside parking there, its more of an issue.

But the bigger salt threat may come from the trail side (sidewalk side) with the planters nearly flush w/the ground.

When melting occurs, there is a risk of saline-heavy runoff going straight into the planters.

IF, the trees make it through the first 2 years their survival odds will be quite good, as the larger the tree gets, the more salt it can handle.

But if we have a rough winter, they may well be dead in spring.

Aside from salt reduction and better salt-mitigation design, this makes one of the cases for spring planting clear.

The tree would have had 7 months of growth and root establishment before having to deal w/salt.

Now its at risk of dealing w/salt immediately following transplant shock.

Hopefully they'll do OK.
 

DSC

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I.

But the bigger salt threat may come from the trail side (sidewalk side) with the planters nearly flush w/the ground.

When melting occurs, there is a risk of saline-heavy runoff going straight into the planters.

Yes, the run-off from the bike track is supposed to help water the planters and you are right it will be very salty. Contractors are responsible for trees for 2 years but I agree that they will be lucky to survive until they can put down a good root system.
 

Northern Light

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Yes, the run-off from the bike track is supposed to help water the planters and you are right it will be very salty. Contractors are responsible for trees for 2 years but I agree that they will be lucky to survive until they can put down a good root system.

Sigh....there's the basis of a good idea, but not completely thought through..........

As for the 2-year warranty. Let me tell you the truth, the City rarely enforces it.

Most enforcement is complaint-driven, esp. media.

By and large, most trees are not inspected by the City more than once in the 2 years after they are planted, and most contractors bank on that.

If they didn't, the plans/rules would change to ensure preservation beyond 2 years.
 

dowlingm

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Applying a gypsum solution might help displace some sodium ions out of the planter soil, but only if the subsoil has good drainage so the sodium has somewhere to go.
 

KevinT

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But the bigger salt threat may come from the trail side (sidewalk side) with the planters nearly flush w/the ground.

When melting occurs, there is a risk of saline-heavy runoff going straight into the planters.

How well do trees handle beet juice? Could that be an alternative to salt for the bike path?
 

Northern Light

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How well do trees handle beet juice? Could that be an alternative to salt for the bike path?

If they were using the beet product (which isn't juice) in a pure form, it would be vastly less harmful.

The beet 'juice' is a by-product of processing sugar beets.

Now, that said, the product is rarely used 'straight'.

It's typically blended w/salt and brine.

But it does still reduce salt significantly, both by volume w/i the mixture, but also because the mixture is slightly sticky, there is reduced salt splatter of somewhere between 5-30%.

So what it comes down to, is that yes, the beet-brine combo is much more eco-friendly.

However, it is also more expensive, which is the primary reason you see less of it used.

You tend to need less of it, mind you, I have yet to see a clear study on how much the net cost/savings it when it's all balanced out; but at $ per litre it is much more expensive that straight salt brine.

It also has a rather curious smell, which I'm not sure how most people would feel about.

Somewhere between Soy Sauce and Burnt Coffee is most people's description, though I heard someone describe it as 'tootsie roll'.

The smell dissipates after a few hours.
 
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MikeMacNcheese

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Think it has been mentioned several times, but going east on Lakeshore through the area with the off-ramp is awful.

Saturday afternoon we were coming back from the west-end along Lakeshore and once we got near York it felt really disorganized/risky, but I'm not sure what the solution is to cut down on that awkward merge between those exiting the ramp and those already on the street.
 

drum118

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The last section of the path between Simcoe and Rees is almost ready to open. New markings At Simcoe.
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DSC

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How far does the bike path go? Does it connect to an already existing one?
This is (mainly) not a new path and is really the re-opening of the old one that ran from Spadina to York below the Gardiner. It is now all (??) resurfaced and now goes further east to Bay as a separated path and as an on-street one to Yonge. Not very scenic and it has several street crossings (with lights) but can be less trying than the Martin Goodman on QQ when that gets too crowded.
 

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