Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

rdaner said:
I remember when this thread was about images on updates.
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Yes, but this is an interesting discussion on 'civics' so it fits here perfectly. Some people only like images and updates and some only seem to like the 'philosophical' discussions. Personally I like the mix though I sometimes DO get tired of too many repetitive images (esp if not actually well photographed!) and often of repetitive 'philosophy'. I just take a break from a thread (or a UTer) if things become too repetitive.
 
Updates and discussion on progress doesn't always require images...
 
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rdaner said:
I remember when this thread was about images on updates.
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It's also the (to me) incongruity of this being a "Buildings" thread, yet a lot of the content has clearly been "Infrastructure". It shows how hard it is to bin some new works!
 
Update on the bridge demolition from today. It appears all of the concrete deck has been removed.

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My biggest problem with Ookwemin Minising is that it doesn't describe the "thing" in an understandable language. Nobody knows what a Minising is and it just means "place". So in order to understand what you're talking about, especially with a stranger, you're almost compelled to say Ookwemin Minising Island, which is a difficult to remember mouthful.

I think a good compromise would have been Ookwemin Island (meaning "black cherry" island). Even if you don't know what Ookwemin means, you can treat is as a name, like Tecumseth Street. Maybe it will end up being said this way, anyway.
 
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Dr. Snoot said:
My biggest problem with Oookwemin Minising is that it doesn't describe the "thing" in an understandable language. Nobody knows what a Minising is and it just means "place". So in order to understand what you're talking about, especially with a stranger, you're almost compelled to say Oookwemin Minising Island, which is a difficult to remember mouthful.

I think a good compromise would have been Ookwemin Island (meaning "black cherry" island). Even if you don't know what Ookwemin means, you can treat is as a name, like Tecumseth Street. Maybe it will end up being said this way, anyway.
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There are lots of places that are known by names in other languages that include a geographic feature and people come to learn what they mean. Côte d'Azur, Mont-Royal, Rio de Janeiro... the list goes on. I for one learned that Minising is the Ojibwe word for "island" or "at the island" through this naming process, which I would argue is the whole point. As settlers, we can and should all make an effort to learn a bit more about the people who have lived in this place for thousands of years before Europeans and others arrived. The least we can do, really.
 
...I think this has always been about who is inconveniencing who with that name here. And that's pretty sad, IMO.
 
Parkdalian said:
I think defining what is "pronounceable" to an English language speaker is a pretty challenging thing to define. English spelling is not consistent. And I think that "Anglicizing" something ... is the opposite point of Reconciliation. Also, who determines if an English speaker is "able to say that word"? There are many English speakers on this forum who say that they can pronounce the word as is.

All of this to say that while I think that the wider public should be able to pronounce new names, there is no clear criteria for what is or isn't "pronounceable." That means that particular criterion shouldn't have veto power over other criteria. As @Natika33 points out, I'm sure the people choosing the name put a lot of thought into the things that you seem to feel they have completely ignored.
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Ookwemin Minising is a perfectly fine name- but to Northern Light's point, most people are going to garble and mispronounce it because it is not spelled phonetically in the Latin alphabet. It is very likely that most people will mispronounce it as "OOK-whemmin" .

If the Ojibway word is pronounced "Oh-KWAY-min", why not just spell it "Okwaymin", or something else that will prompt the largest number of people to actually pronounce the Ojibway word correctly?

And if the phonetic pronunciation or understanding of the name by non-indigenous people is a minor issue, or appealing to their understanding and/or pronunciation of the name is not important, then why even bother spelling in out in the Latin alphabet to begin with?
 
UtakataNoAnnex said:
...I think this has always been about who is inconveniencing who with that name here. And that's pretty sad, IMO.
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This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.
 
old boy said:
This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.
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Murray Sinclair passed away this morning at age 73. A remarkable man who was most influential in delivering the Truth and Reconciliation document.
 
old boy said:
This is about foisting a name on the majority. Are we going to have catchy indigenous phrase-names henceforth for new parkland to assuage the guilt of the settler population ? I'm amused when people believe this line of questioning to be colonial/settler/racist. As an aside , I'm proud of my Cree/Inuit forebears as I am proud of my European forebears. Enough said.
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I think it's a nice trend. We have plenty of Colonel Sam Smith, Garrison Common, Coronation, etc. Why not some variety?
 
According to Chat GTP: 9,500 streets in the City of Toronto as well as 140 neighbourhoods of which I am guessing 95% have UK place names. I think that we have that part of our history covered. 😝
 
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