Toronto Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/490317

Waterfront Toronto to delay some projects

Escalated costs mean some plans now must wait until 2013 or later, group says
Sep 04, 2008 04:30 AM

PAUL MOLONEY
CITY HALL BUREAU

Escalating costs have forced Waterfront Toronto to scale back the number of projects planned over the next five years.

The board of the waterfront renewal agency yesterday approved a new long-term plan that puts some projects on hold until after 2013. They include:

A $343 million plan to repair dock walls and build a new water's edge promenade from York St. to Yonge St. Instead, the agency will focus on building the promenade section from York St. west to Bathurst St.

A $70 million transit upgrade, including a new streetcar line along Bremner Blvd. running west from Union Station, which officials say can be put off until enough new residents move in to justify the service.

Two projects totalling $190 million in the West Don Lands are now on hold. This will delay plans to build a pedestrian bridge spanning the Don River and a tunnel under the rail corridor south of the Distillery District.

The agency has spent about $400 million to date to prepare land for development in conditions of contaminated soil, a high water table and increasing charges from contractors, said Waterfront Toronto president and CEO John Campbell.

"In the last five years, we've had about 65 per cent escalation of hard costs," Campbell told the board. "To build roads and trenches and pipes costs a lot of money. When you start digging underground, you can constantly get surprises."

By 2014, the agency expects to have spent $1.5 billion in grant money pledged by the federal, provincial and city governments, and $462 million in revenues from leasing and selling land.

But it will also need to borrow about $192 million, a step that will require permission from all the government partners, Campbell said.

Legislation setting up the agency doesn't allow it to borrow money, said Marisa Piattelli, vice-president of communications, government relations and strategic initiatives.

This wasn't an issue in the agency's early years, but Waterfront Toronto now needs to have the ability to borrow money to carry out its plans, Piattelli said.

"I think we've made the case for why we need to do this," she said. "It's a matter now of getting government agreement – all three levels."

Mayor David Miller, a member of the agency's board, raised no objections to the borrowing plan at yesterday's board meeting.

Federal and provincial governments are considering the borrowing issue, said spokespeople for federal Environment Minister John Baird and provincial Energy and Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman.

Meanwhile, work continues on development of two new waterfront parks, Sherbourne Park and Sugar Beach, slated for completion in 2010, and a condo sales office is expected to open in the West Don Lands by February.

Also, an office building for Corus Entertainment is under construction on city owned land on Queens Quay. And a proposed new campus for George Brown College, also on Queens Quay, awaits city council approval.
 
$400 million to date to prepare land for development in conditions of contaminated soil, a high water table and increasing charges from contractors
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Um, what? 400 million? Are you kidding me?

I wonder how much contractors are charging the city while they take their time opening things like the Spadina wave pier.

No wonder people never believe anything will get done in this city when moving around some dirt costs 400 million dollars. What a disgrace. Just @!#$ build it already.
 
The soil conditions should not have come as any surprise.
 
Cleaning decades of seagull poop = $400 million.

This city is contaminated. We will all be dead by the time anything large scale gets done.
 
Hydrogen said:
A $343 million plan to repair dock walls and build a new water's edge promenade from York St. to Yonge St. Instead, the agency will focus on building the promenade section from York St. west to Bathurst St.
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That leaves the most important and currently used section in the plan. Too bad they didn't have their plans fully worked out before redoing the Harbourfront Centre promenade and HtO because obviously there is more money spent duplicating work.

Hydrogen said:
A $70 million transit upgrade, including a new streetcar line along Bremner Blvd. running west from Union Station, which officials say can be put off until enough new residents move in to justify the service.
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Why would waterfront money be spent on this anyways? It doesn't improve the waterfront and the Waterfront West LRT if put onto Bremner will get bogged down at SkyDome. Put a bus on Bremner.

Hydrogen said:
Two projects totalling $190 million in the West Don Lands are now on hold. This will delay plans to build a pedestrian bridge spanning the Don River and a tunnel under the rail corridor south of the Distillery District.
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With the lands south of the Distillery District undeveloped and a pedestrian bridge near lakeshore, a bridge at Queen, and a freeway and BMW dealership directly across the rvier who will miss it?

Hydrogen said:
The agency has spent about $400 million to date to prepare land for development in conditions of contaminated soil, a high water table and increasing charges from contractors, said Waterfront Toronto president and CEO John Campbell.

"In the last five years, we've had about 65 per cent escalation of hard costs," Campbell told the board. "To build roads and trenches and pipes costs a lot of money. When you start digging underground, you can constantly get surprises."
Click to expand...

I'm a little surprised they didn't budget for this. It isn't the first time someone has dug a hole downtown. Hopefully they aren't throwing money at contractors foolishly.

Hydrogen said:
But it will also need to borrow about $192 million, a step that will require permission from all the government partners, Campbell said.
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As long as they are arms length enough that their debts aren't backed by the government and their bankruptcy isn't an expense to the taxpayer I say go for it.

Hydrogen said:
Meanwhile, work continues on development of two new waterfront parks, Sherbourne Park and Sugar Beach, slated for completion in 2010, and a condo sales office is expected to open in the West Don Lands by February.
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This is the exciting stuff.
 
This quote really stands out for me....

"By 2014, the agency expects to have spent $1.5 billion in grant money pledged by the federal, provincial and city governments, and $462 million in revenues from leasing and selling land"

Does this mean that the taxpayer funded agency is ONLY going to recieve $462 million in return for a $1.5 billion investment in cleaning up the land??? I don't understand what the payback is for the taxpayers. Something is very wrong with this picture
 
Jayomatic said:
Um, what? 400 million? Are you kidding me?

I wonder how much contractors are charging the city while they take their time opening things like the Spadina wave pier.

No wonder people never believe anything will get done in this city when moving around some dirt costs 400 million dollars. What a disgrace. Just @!#$ build it already.
Click to expand...

I thought soil clean-up was done on site to reduce cost of shipping it elsewhere. The contaminated soit issue was far too downplayed by TWRC at the time, and should not come as a surprise now, or the taxpayer is getting hosed again. I recall Ataratiri had the same issue, soil remediation was too expensive and they shut it down.
 
Peepers said:
Does this mean that the taxpayer funded agency is ONLY going to recieve $462 million in return for a $1.5 billion investment in cleaning up the land??? I don't understand what the payback is for the taxpayers. Something is very wrong with this picture
Click to expand...

The agency will receive $462 million directly but the agency is a partnership between three governments which will collect land taxes, development taxes, business taxes, and income taxes for all the new jobs in the area. If the agency sought to be the developer of the lands as well as developer of the public infrastructure they would probably make much more but many people are against government getting into business and competing using taxpayer dollars for start-up.
 
Just when it seems like things were gaining momentum things are delayed...again. Didn't they account for these costs with their earlier forecasts? Being off by 65% is pretty bad.
 
EnviroTO said:
The agency will receive $462 million directly but the agency is a partnership between three governments which will collect land taxes, development taxes, business taxes, and income taxes for all the new jobs in the area. If the agency sought to be the developer of the lands as well as developer of the public infrastructure they would probably make much more but many people are against government getting into business and competing using taxpayer dollars for start-up.
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I know the various levels of government will recieve various taxes but consider this : if the "agency" had simply sold this track of land to a developer for just $1 and placed the onus on the developer to clean up the land and build necessary infrastructe the taxpayer would have saved over $1 BILLION dollars!!!
 
Developers wouldn't touch it with a bargepole

Peepers said:
I know the various levels of government will recieve various taxes but consider this : if the "agency" had simply sold this track of land to a developer for just $1 and placed the onus on the developer to clean up the land and build necessary infrastructe the taxpayer would have saved over $1 BILLION dollars!!!
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For the same reason that CN/CP won't sell tracks to private interests and Imperial Oil won't remediate and sell its old properties without a government intervention in-between -- the legal liabilities are potentially crushing.

The only way this was ever going to get done was to have the government provide a legal buffer.
 
cruzin4u said:
Cleaning decades of seagull poop = $400 million.

This city is contaminated. We will all be dead by the time anything large scale gets done.
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Color me skeptical, but how much of this 'clean up' is really necessary? Like all that crap about school yard playgrounds a few years ago, I get very suspicious about the environmental industry and their agendas. There are very many vultures feeding at this trough and it is a very lucrative business to hang up your shingle as an environmental consultant.

If you're building 3 levels of underground parking and a 50 story tower on the land, who gives a crap what is under that? With all the seagull and goose shit, it's not like you'd want to roll around on the lawns anyway!
 
If you're building 3 levels of underground parking and a 50 story tower on the land, who gives a crap what is under that?
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You do realize the soil displaced by the 3 levels of underground parking isn't vaporized during the excavation process.

(moot point as pretty much all the parking is proposed above ground due to flooding concerns)
 
Peepers said:
I know the various levels of government will recieve various taxes but consider this : if the "agency" had simply sold this track of land to a developer for just $1 and placed the onus on the developer to clean up the land and build necessary infrastructe the taxpayer would have saved over $1 BILLION dollars!!!
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Yes, the difference is there would be no infrastructure to handle higher densities, no parks, and the cheapest buildings possible... perhaps a big box complex. There is privately owned property on the waterfront now but nothing being built because there is no stimulus.
 
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