Lower Don Lands Redevelopment | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[hawc]

You know what's funny... drivers don't hate cyclists and transit users. But transit users and cyclists hate drivers. Is anyone who drives a car automatically selfish? What about all the cyclists and transit riders who also take cabs and ubers all the time is that not really driving?

 

[hawc]

Get rid of your car and your world gets pretty small and limited. You need a lot of advanced planning to do anything. Have a car and things really open up. I personally think there's a time for every mode of transportation, a time for driving, a time for transit and a time for cycling. But many members on here won't admit cars have any usefulness at all and that's just nuts.

 

[maestro]

The Portland's is geographically a terrible spot to cram a ton of residential density. It's one of convenience being a brownfield with a billion dollars (?) in public investment. That's how growth is being planned in Toronto and it's far from ideal.

I'm not believer that nirvana from housing costs to quality of life will be achieved with more and more 40 storey towers particularly outside the core where amenities for the population densities don't exist or are part of any these master plans. I haven't heard any argument beyond more housing will lower market values.

The Netherlands is always brought up in these conversations on eliminating the car. I don't feel the people bringing it up have explored much of Toronto or the Netherlands. Don't get me wrong, the Netherlands here is as attainable as it was for the Netherlands. I doubt it can be successfully accomplished through the same modes/methods. Toronto is huge with more extreme weather. Dsitances travelled are longer. Bikes are a less practical mode. The big thing is everyone has a side and wants to kill the other. This is ingrained in municipal politics as well. That only leads to chaos for all getting around town.

 

[DSC]

Get rid of your car and your world gets pretty small and limited. You need a lot of advanced planning to do anything. Have a car and things really open up. I personally think there's a time for every mode of transportation, a time for driving, a time for transit and a time for cycling. But many members on here won't admit cars have any usefulness at all and that's just nuts.

How true, I have not owned a car for many years and have not even rented one for a decade. The need for a car depends on your circumstances (family with kids probably need one), distance/convenience to work, whether you have a house/garden or a condo etc etc. Of course cars are useful and often necessary but I must say from experience that if you do NOT have a car you can manage to live very comfortably without one (or, by consolidating 'car jobs', rent one as required.)

 

[DirectionNorth]

You know what's funny... drivers don't hate cyclists and transit users. But transit users and cyclists hate drivers. Is anyone who drives a car automatically selfish? What about all the cyclists and transit riders who also take cabs and ubers all the time is that not really driving?

Transit users and cyclists "hate" drivers but drivers don't hate other road users? Were you living in a cave during the Rob Ford years? Is it because a single car carrying one person gets in the way of multiple streetcars carrying hundreds? Or kills a cyclist? Or is the least space efficient mode of transport? If you think we should prioritise cars, that's okay, but the rhetoric that "transit HATES cars" is totally untrue.

Get rid of your car and your world gets pretty small and limited. You need a lot of advanced planning to do anything. Have a car and things really open up. I personally think there's a time for every mode of transportation, a time for driving, a time for transit and a time for cycling. But many members on here won't admit cars have any usefulness at all and that's just nuts.

"Let's improve transit by deprioritising it", said nobody ever.

This is the embodiment of the Canadian attitude, being that "this is the way it is, and there is absolutely no way ever that it could ever be another way". Have you stopped to consider why cars are convenient? Because of decades of land-use policy that encourages car use?

There is a time and place for cars. It's called Mississauga. In central Toronto, there isn't the room to drive.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Transit users and cyclists "hate" drivers? Were you living in a cave during the Rob Ford years? Is it because a single car carrying one person gets in the way of multiple streetcars carrying hundreds? Or kills a cyclist? Or is the least space efficient? If you think we should prioritise cars, that's okay, but the rhetoric that "transit HATES cars" is totally untrue.


"Let's improve transit by deprioritising it", said nobody ever.

This is the embodiment of the Canadian attitude, being that "this is the way it is, and there is absolutely no way ever that it could ever be another way". Have you stopped to consider why cars are convenient? Because of decades of land-use policy that encourages car use?

There is a time and place for cars. It's called Mississauga. In central Toronto, there isn't the room to drive.

 

[evandyk]

How true, I have not owned a car for many years and have not even rented one for a decade. The need for a car depends on your circumstances (family with kids probably need one), distance/convenience to work, whether you have a house/garden or a condo etc etc. Of course cars are useful and often necessary but I must say from experience that if you do NOT have a car you can manage to live very comfortably without one (or, by consolidating 'car jobs', rent one as required.)

I have a car, and a three year old (maybe I can't call him the Toddler any more?) and we do have a car, but use it fairly rarely. No more than once or twice a week, and never to take him to daycare or myself to work. Even though I need to wear nice clothes!

 

[Northern Light]

You know what's funny... drivers don't hate cyclists and transit users. But transit users and cyclists hate drivers.

Says who? On what do you base such a claim?

If you've been reading through the replies here, several people in this thread, on this site, own cars, but also don't use them to commute and are regular transit users and/or cyclists.

I didn't see any evidence of self-hatred.

You do come off as needlessly aggressive on this subject. I don't see anyone saying 'ban all cars' or 'drivers are evil'. What people are saying is there is not any room for a substantial increase in the number of cars in the GTA, and in downtown in particular. That other modes of transport (walking, biking, TTC, GO etc.) need to be prioritized and invested in; and that parking, in general should be provided less and at a greater cost to drivers/parkers such that more money is available not only to build, but to operate more transit, with better frequency at lower prices.

That's not a war on anyone. It's a position supported by evidence. You're welcome to have a different preference, but in saying as much, you ought to be able to support how that preference is feasible when, irrespective of one's preferences, there is no plan or money to widen the DVP or the Gardiner, local roads can be quite congested at peak times, and when a housing crisis, if nothing else, demands we not give over acres of land to parking.

Said by a car-owner, who drives; and also takes transit.

 

[just east of the creek]

The Portland's is geographically a terrible spot to cram a ton of residential density. It's one of convenience being a brownfield with a billion dollars (?) in public investment. That's how growth is being planned in Toronto and it's far from ideal.

I'm not believer that nirvana from housing costs to quality of life will be achieved with more and more 40 storey towers particularly outside the core where amenities for the population densities don't exist or are part of any these master plans. I haven't heard any argument beyond more housing will lower market values.

The Netherlands is always brought up in these conversations on eliminating the car. I don't feel the people bringing it up have explored much of Toronto or the Netherlands. Don't get me wrong, the Netherlands here is as attainable as it was for the Netherlands. I doubt it can be successfully accomplished through the same modes/methods. Toronto is huge with more extreme weather. Dsitances travelled are longer. Bikes are a less practical mode. The big thing is everyone has a side and wants to kill the other. This is ingrained in municipal politics as well. That only leads to chaos for all getting around town.

The Netherlands is a very small country with high levels of bike use, transit use and well yes, cars. Moving around the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium and Germany is quite often, most optimal in a car over medium to longer distances, not including travel from city centre to city centre.

 

[jsmith77]

Villiers is an island with three bridges to get on/off. It’s getting residents now to add to the regular traffic from surrounding businesses and beach visitors (yes all year round, that dog park doesn’t take winter off)

Cherry st gets realigned, a streetcar is added and the Gardiner gets a new ramp. Traffic was gonna get intense with new residents alone, but now we’ve got a Gardiner ramp adding to the complexity.

Both Portlands and Quayside are going to add to the traffic, nevermind the fact that the green space they’re adding will be a destination- and if you’re familiar with the Distillery, you’ll know that regular transit and no parking is not enough of a deterrent for folks from the 905 showing up in their cars.

So just because it looks like there’s room to stack some towers, that doesn’t mean we should.

I’m wondering just how bad Cherry & Lake Shore is going to be when it’s all done- because as bad as Jarvis & Lake Shore has been for years- they don’t have a streetcar.

But yeah, it’s gonna be tough for Villiers residents living in an island as it stands, I don’t see how things improve with another 10-20 storeys.

Also. Regarding the unreliability of the TTC. Sure, we underfund the system and it’s falling apart - but I don’t understand drivers who see sitting in traffic as dissimilar to a subway delay.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Villiers is an island with three bridges to get on/off. It’s getting residents now to add to the regular traffic from surrounding businesses and beach visitors (yes all year round, that dog park doesn’t take winter off)

Cherry st gets realigned, a streetcar is added and the Gardiner gets a new ramp. Traffic was gonna get intense with new residents alone, but now we’ve got a Gardiner ramp adding to the complexity.

Both Portlands and Quayside are going to add to the traffic, nevermind the fact that the green space they’re adding will be a destination- and if you’re familiar with the Distillery, you’ll know that regular transit and no parking is not enough of a deterrent for folks from the 905 showing up in their cars.

So just because it looks like there’s room to stack some towers, that doesn’t mean we should.

I’m wondering just how bad Cherry & Lake Shore is going to be when it’s all done- because as bad as Jarvis & Lake Shore has been for years- they don’t have a streetcar.

But yeah, it’s gonna be tough for Villiers residents living in an island as it stands, I don’t see how things improve with another 10-20 storeys.

Also. Regarding the unreliability of the TTC. Sure, we underfund the system and it’s falling apart - but I don’t understand drivers who see sitting in traffic as dissimilar to a subway delay.

Forgot to mention the East Harbour Station of the Ontario Line.

Also forgot to mention the Broadview Streetcar being extended south.

From link.

 

[W. K. Lis]

With three streetcar routes heading for Broadview Station (504 KING, 505 DUNDAS, and BROADVIEW), the station would be too crowded the handle the passenger load. The 505 DUNDAS should be extended east of Broadview Avenue and north on Carlaw Avenue to Ontario Line's Gerrard Station.

 

[UtakataNoAnnex]

Says who? On what do you base such a claim?

If you've been reading through the replies here, several people in this thread, on this site, own cars, but also don't use them to commute and are regular transit users and/or cyclists.

I didn't see any evidence of self-hatred.

You do come off as needlessly aggressive on this subject. I don't see anyone saying 'ban all cars' or 'drivers are evil'. What people are saying is there is not any room for a substantial increase in the number of cars in the GTA, and in downtown in particular. That other modes of transport (walking, biking, TTC, GO etc.) need to be prioritized and invested in; and that parking, in general should be provided less and at a greater cost to drivers/parkers such that more money is available not only to build, but to operate more transit, with better frequency at lower prices.

That's not a war on anyone. Its a position supported by evidence. You're welcome to have a different preference, but in saying as much, you ought to be able to support how that preference is feasible when, irrespective of one's preferences, there is no plan or money to widen the DVP or the Gardiner, local roads can be quite congested at peak times, and when a housing crisis, if nothing else, demands we not give over acres of land to parking.

Said by a car-owner, who drives; and also takes transit.

The elephant being overlooked in the room here is what are cars doing to the environment we live and depend on. The more reliant we are on this mode of transportation, the more "war" we're declaring on such. And unlike hawc-san's car hating strawmen, this is an actual real thing...

...again, I am also not saying this because I hate cars...they do get me around when I am in other modes of transportation are just not available. Rather why our dependents on such should be for when we actually need it as opposed to wanting it...as we also need to mindful the harms we're contributing to said environment when using it.

 

[Toronto Rocks]

My understanding from a previous post, was that the Gardiner ramp to and from the DVP, will be torn down then rebuilt closer to the rail tracks, which will also alllow for additional residential towers to be added between the rails and Lake Shore Blvd.

 

[drum118]

Dec 18
2 of the 3 new piers for the eastbound new bridge are built with the west pier still to be built.

Shoring in place to the north of the Lake Shore for the west break wall and pond.

The eastbound curb lane has been pour at Cherry St and waiting paving or the rest of Cherry St to be built to the south.

A truck was sitting at Cherry St northbound lane that was open with no signs saying so or why the truck was on duty there in the first place.

Couple of shots unedited and no idea when they will hit my site and the rest I shot today. Now have 55 days of backlogs to work on for about 5,000 photos.