E•MO•TION
New Member
It's not really needed.
Almost every single bus route, including the remaining intercity services travel through downtown Kitchener rather than terminating there.
Kitchener King Victoria Transit Hub | ?m | 2s | Metrolinx | WZMH
- Thread starter Northern Light
- Start date
Almost every single bus route, including the remaining intercity services travel through downtown Kitchener rather than terminating there.
KevinT
Active Member
Exactly. The GRT routes changed from hub-and-spoke to spine-and-ribs with the opening of the ION LRT, essentially a rolling bus terminal.
emphurent
Active Member
The view from the future Northern Platform will be nice, whenever the station finally starts construction... *sigh*
Also enjoy a view of part of the southern platform in frame.
Also enjoy a view of part of the southern platform in frame.
Northern Light
Superstar
Well, some work should begin soon, though the bulk of the project is pending a funding announcement: (new platform at this site coming next year, with or without the rest of the building.)
From: https://www.engagewr.ca/king-victoria-transit-hub
jmb
New Member
I'm starting to wonder what's the point of the new building. The work they're (hopefully) doing next year will provide the platform and bus loops. A couple ramps down to the LRT and what more is really needed for the station to actually work?
I'm kinda wondering if it (or a least $95M of it) is basically just a vanity project.
I'm kinda wondering if it (or a least $95M of it) is basically just a vanity project.
awaterwell
New Member
E•MO•TION
New Member
The existing station fulfills this need just fine.
The fact that the Region conveniently intends to use the homeless encampment at Victoria / Weber as staging grounds for a $95 million train station to be located in an empty field two blocks away is a true testament to the priorities of our politicians. Vanity project indeed.
mdu
Active Member
It is a bit wasteful, but no doubt having the LRT properly connect to GO is a significant advantage for riders.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
It is a transit station. Railway station plus bus station plus LRT connections. Train station on the top level and bus station on the bottom level. It is a nice building and plaza but if you combine the square footage of the Charles Street terminal that existed before, and the VIA station that will be closing then add some space for accessibility requirements... is it really that much different other than it looks far better than Charles St and the VIA station? If having architects involved in the design makes it a vanity project, then so be it, but to have the waiting area, staff rooms, washrooms, ticketing, and circulation area required... it was going to be this size.
nfitz
Superstar
It's almost a 10-minute walk from the current GO Station to the Ion stop on King Street. It was bad enough years ago trying to do this with luggage from the VIA station to the stop for the 7 bus. But now you can't even walk off the end of the platform at Weber Street, and have to walk down to Victoria, half-way between Ahrens and Weber.
Also, there's the issue of the second GO platform. I don't see any point building tunnels at the existing station to access that.
jmb
New Member
But are they? And $104m worth?
Once they move the Go station next year, they'll have everything already "connected". Adding some shelter and improving circulation around the site makes sense, but I don't really see that needing $104m (less whatever will be spent to improve stuff next year).
It's starting to make a lot more sense to me to do something very modest and wait until the market changes and they can return to the original plan, so they can get some density improvements.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
We need to clearly distinguish the two phases of the project. Phase 1 (under construction) is highlighted in Yellow and Blue in the below image. Phase 2 (proposed) is in green.
Phase 1 will cost $43 Million and will include the new Central station's two rail platforms, a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks at Waterloo Street (incl. stairs and elevators), a bicycle bridge across King Street, a 5-bay bus terminal and a parking lot which is a placeholder for future development. The new station is planned to begin service in Fall 2023, at which point the current Kitchener station will be permanently closed.
It is absolutely essential because a second platform is required to support the planned all-day service pattern. It would be stupid to spend money building a pedestrian tunnel and second platform at the existing station, when that station is severly hampered by its lack of connection to the light rail line, its poor pedestrian access and its tiny 2-bay bus terminal. Especially when the Region already owns the land for the new station and has been focusing development toward it for over a decade.
This phase is being built very modestly, with basic pedestrian tunnels, standard bus roadways etc. The only element of this phase which could be considered excessive is the bicycle bridge across King Street, since the bike path will end at the station anyway and it wouldn't be that unreasonable to end the path on the west side of King, provide bike parking there, and use the existing platform along the rail bridge as a walkway.
Phase 2 is estimated to cost $63M and will add the station building and landscaping. It is currently on hold due to lack of funding. This is the portion which could be described as a vanity project, since the station would technically work fine with just a basic building with a ticket office and waiting area, rather than an imposing structure with high ceilings. The station would also work fine if the remainder of the site is left as a barren patch of grass, instead of turning it into a public plaza.
However, I'd like to point out that it is typical for a city's central station to be built with more than just the bare minimum, because it is a representation of the city and can have a significant effect on civic pride and redevelopment potential of the surrounding area.
Does Union Station really need an 88-foot ceiling in the entrance hall?
Image by Michael Caven via Wikimedia
Did the current Kitchener station really need a tower? Apparently not, given that CN removed it in 1966.
Schenectady station technically worked fine when it was just a shack.
Image by Benjamin Turon via Wikimedia
But there is a reason that it was totally rebuilt in 2018.
Image from Daily Gazette | Image by Rich Coffey
Attachments
emphurent
Active Member
Fencing was put up around the site recently, though the region noted construction was still a few months out at least (on phase 1).
Keeping things broad, since some are probably already aware, theres currently a large encampment on land that will be used for site equipment and prep, which the region will have to move in a few months. This hasn't effected scheduling as of now, and the region stated they would try to transition everyone away from the site.
Keeping things broad, since some are probably already aware, theres currently a large encampment on land that will be used for site equipment and prep, which the region will have to move in a few months. This hasn't effected scheduling as of now, and the region stated they would try to transition everyone away from the site.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
Phase 2 is absolutely important to get underway. Waterloo should have a proper entrance to the Region, and have superior passenger amenities. The importance of this station will only increase as London GO service ramps up, with people arriving from both east and west.We need to clearly distinguish the two phases of the project. Phase 1 (under construction) is highlighted in Yellow and Blue in the below image. Phase 2 (proposed) is in green.
Phase 1 will cost $43 Million and will include the new Central station's two rail platforms, a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks at Waterloo Street (incl. stairs and elevators), a bicycle bridge across King Street, a 5-bay bus terminal and a parking lot which is a placeholder for future development. The new station is planned to begin service in Fall 2023, at which point the current Kitchener station will be permanently closed.
It is absolutely essential because a second platform is required to support the planned all-day service pattern. It would be stupid to spend money building a pedestrian tunnel and second platform at the existing station, when that station is severly hampered by its lack of connection to the light rail line, its poor pedestrian access and its tiny 2-bay bus terminal. Especially when the Region already owns the land for the new station and has been focusing development toward it for over a decade.
This phase is being built very modestly, with basic pedestrian tunnels, standard bus roadways etc. The only element of this phase which could be considered excessive is the bicycle bridge across King Street, since the bike path will end at the station anyway and it wouldn't be that unreasonable to end the path on the west side of King, provide bike parking there, and use the existing platform along the rail bridge as a walkway.
Phase 2 is estimated to cost $63M and will add the station building and landscaping. It is currently on hold due to lack of funding. This is the portion which could be described as a vanity project, since the station would technically work fine with just a basic building with a ticket office and waiting area, rather than an imposing structure with high ceilings. The station would also work fine if the remainder of the site is left as a barren patch of grass, instead of turning it into a public plaza.
However, I'd like to point out that it is typical for a city's central station to be built with more than just the bare minimum, because it is a representation of the city and can have a significant effect on civic pride and redevelopment potential of the surrounding area.
Does Union Station really need an 88-foot ceiling in the entrance hall?
Image by Michael Caven via Wikimedia
Did the current Kitchener station really need a tower? Apparently not, given that CN removed it in 1966.
Schenectady station technically worked fine when it was just a shack.
Image by Benjamin Turon via Wikimedia
But there is a reason that it was totally rebuilt in 2018.
Image from Daily Gazette | Image by Rich Coffey
jmb
New Member
Thanks for posting this, It''s very much phase 2 I was talking about, as you said, phase one is clearly critical. Where did you get this info from, I've been looking and couldn't find it, hence my wildly inaccurate assumption the split was like 10/95. (I also hadn't realized they were putting the pedestrian tunnel in in phase, I figured they'd keep costs down and go with a level crossing.