Toronto King-Liberty GO Station | 21.39m | 3s | Metrolinx | WSP

[ProjectEnd]

So, instead of finding essential solutions for connecting neighbourhoods city council are cracking jokes about station names.

As a rough estimate ... there are some 10,000 units/residences within walking distance in this area that have been built/valued/sold under the promise of added value with the King/Liberty connection. If those units see even a 5% drop because of this station being deferred that could mean a loss of over $400M across current owners in the area.

Maybe Tory shouldn't have taken this on like the gullible rube he is and perhaps Doug should step up both to press Metrolinx for better pricing (the estimates here are absurd) then to allocate the adequate resources that transportation expansion requires? In the current state of things, I don't have any issue with Gord drawing attention to how absurd this all is.

 

[stevedean]

Maybe Tory shouldn't have taken this on like the gullible rube he is and perhaps Doug should step up both to press Metrolinx for better pricing (the estimates here are absurd) then to allocate the adequate resources that transportation expansion requires? In the current state of things, I don't have any issue with Gord drawing attention to how absurd this all is.

Gord Perks is an incompetent loser. Has been in power for close to 20 years and I can't point to a single great thing he's done for his ward.
Now, he's trying to get rid of the only transit project in his ward of Parkdale-Highpark.
While the east end of the city gets the Ontario line, the west end of Parkdale-Highpark gets absolutely nothing...

 

[reinventingthewheel]

Maybe Tory shouldn't have taken this on like the gullible rube he is and perhaps Doug should step up both to press Metrolinx for better pricing (the estimates here are absurd) then to allocate the adequate resources that transportation expansion requires? In the current state of things, I don't have any issue with Gord drawing attention to how absurd this all is.

It’s incredibly frustrating that Doug Ford shook up city council back in 2018 with tons of cutbacks but has shown no concern for the bloated and plagued Metrolinx.

 

[txlseries4]

So, instead of finding essential solutions for connecting neighbourhoods city council are cracking jokes about station names.

As a rough estimate ... there are some 10,000 units/residences within walking distance in this area that have been built/valued/sold under the promise of added value with the King/Liberty connection. If those units see even a 5% drop because of this station being deferred that could mean a loss of over $400M across current owners in the area.

One councillor moved a motion that was found out of order. What was passed sounds like finding essential solutions. Why not mention them?

City Council direct the City Manager to request the Province of Ontario to identify a funding solution, including exploring funding opportunities with the Government of Canada and increasing their Provincial contribution to match or exceed the City’s contribution to the SmartTrack program, to ensure delivery of the remaining two station in the Program scope, Finch-Kennedy and King-Liberty at no additional cost to the City.

City Council request the City Manager to request the Province of Ontario to:
a. make public the cost escalation that Metrolinx is reporting since June 2023; and
b. conduct a third-party review of Metrolinx’s cost estimates, including risk assessment, for the five SmartTrack stations (East Harbour, Bloor-Lansdowne, St. Clair-Old Weston, Finch-Kennedy and King-Liberty SmartTrack) in accordance with the amended Subway Agreement in Principle.

City Council request the City Manager to inform the Province of Ontario that all five SmartTrack stations are important to meet the needs of housing and economic development in local communities.

City Council request the City Manager to inform the Province of Ontario of the importance of Finch-Kennedy station to support local housing and economic development, as well as the costs incurred to date to support the Finch-Kennedy station as well as the work that has already been initiated for the grade separation work.

City Council direct the City Manager to request Metrolinx to fulfil initial plans of a direct, protected and accessible pedestrian/cycling connection over the rail corridor between Sudbury Street and Joe Shuster Way as part of ongoing corridor work on the Kitchener Line, whether or not it is included as part of the King-Liberty GO Station construction which is pending a provincial capital funding contribution.

 

[ProjectEnd]

Gord Perks is an incompetent loser. Has been in power for close to 20 years and I can't point to a single great thing he's done for his ward.
Now, he's trying to get rid of the only transit project in his ward of Parkdale-Highpark.
While the east end of the city gets the Ontario line, the west end of Parkdale-Highpark gets absolutely nothing...

That's about as dumb a broad-brush-whitewashing as you can get. But sure, friendo, sure.

 

[Northern Light]

Gord Perks is an incompetent loser.

This sort of statement is not appropriate for thoughtful debate and discussion; its going to impair people taking you seriously.

You can critique Gord, I have, there's nothing wrong w/that, you can absolutely challenge anyone's record.

But don't go with base school yard namecalling.

Identify why you perceive someone to be a problem and why, and provide supporting evidence where possible.

Has been in power for close to 20 years and I can't point to a single great thing he's done for his ward.

Great is a very high bar for any councillor to achieve. Its the sort of thing that implies a generational investment like a new subway, which is well beyond what one councillor can deliver, though they may have an outsized role in getting something over the line, or making it better.

Now, he's trying to get rid of the only transit project in his ward of Parkdale-Highpark.

He's what? Is there evidence that Gord is advocating outright cancellation of the project? If so, please cite that.

While the east end of the city gets the Ontario line, the west end of Parkdale-Highpark gets absolutely nothing...

You mean Queen-Spadina station is in the east end? King-Bathurst Station is in the east end? Exhibtion Station is in the east end? Ummmm.

******

There are a number of ways in which I feel Gord could be a better councillor.......... I think if one were to critque some positions he's taken on new development, or the slow-walking of many cycle track projects for a long time........you'd be on safe ground.

But its not as if that Ward has gotten not attention or resources, the last few years.

Offhand:

North Parkdale/Souraren Recreation Centre will be a very large investment.
Railpath abuts Gord's Ward.
Parkdale Community Hub is moving forward (too slowly, but i digress), featuring not only new housing, but a new library and recreation centre.
The forever in the making connection from Dundas West Station to Bloor GO/UPX station is under way.

There are many others.

 

[Northern Light]

Seriously, the way in which I see politicians/pundits I generally agree with (ie Matlow) talk about this is migraine inducing. This mindset of GO as a creature of the undefinable suburbanite, never going to serve the city, used as an argument against building stations that would serve the city is very frustrating.

And the whole 'why should the city pay for this' is crazy in the context of the deal Tory made which would see the province pay for all subway expansion. for all time, so long as we just built these half dozen stations.

The stations agreed to have an eye-watering budget that is absolutely not justified.

To be clear, the issue is not the stations themselves, simply that they can and should be delivered at well less than 1/2 the current budget.

***

Second, John Tory didn't get the province to pay for any subway expansions, that may have been the political theatre put out there, it has little connection to reality.

***

For the record, I support these stations being built, but the City is absolutely right to say no to providing further money, and indeed they should audit where the existing money is going and call Metrolinx on the carpet for same.

 

[stevedean]

That's about as dumb a broad-brush-whitewashing as you can get. But sure, friendo, sure.

Keep electing him - I'm sure the results for the next 20 years will be better than the first 20.
You already disparaged me for including a BlogTO article, so I don't really care about your opinion.

 

[stevedean]

This sort of statement is not appropriate for thoughtful debate and discussion; its going to impair people taking you seriously.

You can critique Gord, I have, there's nothing wrong w/that, you can absolutely challenge anyone's record.

But don't go with base school yard namecalling.

Identify why you perceive someone to be a problem and why, and provide supporting evidence where possible.



Great is a very high bar for any councillor to achieve. Its the sort of thing that implies a generational investment like a new subway, which is well beyond what one councillor can deliver, though they may have an outsized role in getting something over the line, or making it better.



He's what? Is there evidence that Gord is advocating outright cancellation of the project? If so, please cite that.



You mean Queen-Spadina station is in the east end? King-Bathurst Station is in the east end? Exhibtion Station is in the east end? Ummmm.

******

There are a number of ways in which I feel Gord could be a better councillor.......... I think if one were to critque some positions he's taken on new development, or the slow-walking of many cycle track projects for a long time........you'd be on safe ground.

But its not as if that Ward has gotten not attention or resources, the last few years.

Offhand:

North Parkdale/Souraren Recreation Centre will be a very large investment.
Railpath abuts Gord's Ward.
Parkdale Community Hub is moving forward (too slowly, but i digress), featuring not only new housing, but a new library and recreation centre.
The forever in the making connection from Dundas West Station to Bloor GO/UPX station is under way.

There are many others.

If the words "loser" or "incompetent" hurt people's feelings, then we have a bigger issue here...

All of the accomplishments you've listed have been in the works for decades if not longer (Sorauren rec centre was talked about in 80s). He's been in power for close to 20 years and none of them are even close to being completed.

He (along with council) have decided to deprioritize King-Liberty - that's my evidence.

Queen-Spadina, King-Bathurst, Exhibition are not in his Ward. And my point is that nothing is being built for the area west of Bathurst/North of King all the way to High Park/Bloor.

 

[Northern Light]

If the words "loser" or "incompetent" hurt people's feelings, then we have a bigger issue here...

The issue is not hurt feelings. Its having an adult conversation, in which people make well thought out arguments, politely.

All of the accomplishments you've listed have been in the works for decades if not longer (Sorauren rec centre was talked about in 80s). He's been in power for close to 20 years and none of them are even close to being completed.

This is clearly not correct. The Dundas West Link is under construction right now.

The North Parkdale Recreation Centre is slated to begin construction this coming year, in 2025.

The Parkdale Hub was first discussed in 2019, not in the 80s or 90s.

The Railpath extension is slated to go to construction in 2025, the tender is actually penciled in for January.

He (along with council) have decided to deprioritize King-Liberty - that's my evidence.

Staff are the ones who decided which stations would recieve lesser priority if that were the choice imposed by the province.

But it is the province who has come to the City asking for money, for a project with an already bloated, excessive and unreasonable budget.

This was not something initiated by the City, it was something the City was forced to respond to by the province trying to welsh on its end of an already lopsided deal.

Queen-Spadina, King-Bathurst, Exhibition are not in his Ward. And my point is that nothing is being built for the area west of Bathurst/North of King all the way to High Park/Bloor.

So a Councillor is only any good if they get their ward a subway station? There are 25 wards..........that will bankrupt the city and the province; I mean assuming you want to run a line to your station.

The ward already has a subway line, Line 2. It will soon have a second one close by (Ontario Line), and will have access to frequent, all-day GO service at 2 stations on Bloor, and likely one at King-Liberty too (this is a negotiating position, and nothing has been cancelled)

 

[stevedean]

The issue is not hurt feelings. Its having an adult conversation, in which people make well thought out arguments, politely.



This is clearly not correct. The Dundas West Link is under construction right now.

The North Parkdale Recreation Centre is slated to begin construction this coming year, in 2025.

The Parkdale Hub was first discussed in 2019, not in the 80s or 90s.

The Railpath extension is slated to go to construction in 2025, the tender is actually penciled in for January.



Staff are the ones who decided which stations would recieve lesser priority if that were the choice imposed by the province.

But it is the province who has come to the City asking for money, for a project with an already bloated, excessive and unreasonable budget.

This was not something initiated by the City, it was something the City was forced to respond to by the province trying to welsh on its end of an already lopsided deal.



So a Councillor is only any good if they get their ward a subway station? There are 25 wards..........that will bankrupt the city and the province; I mean assuming you want to run a line to your station.

The ward already has a subway line, Line 2. It will soon have a second one close by (Ontario Line), and will have access to frequent, all-day GO service at 2 stations on Bloor, and likely one at King-Liberty too (this is a negotiating position, and nothing has been cancelled)

I have no faith that any of those projects will be completed anytime soon, or on budget.

Has he improved transit in his Ward in any way in the 20 years he's been in power? It doesn't have to be a subway station - for example, it could be a dedicated streetcar lane, express bus service, even something like the King St Pilot project...

The Bloor subway in his Ward predates him by about 40 years!

"Frequent all-day GO" service - once again something that we've been talking about for decades that doesn't exist.

It seems as though you are far more willing to give him (and the City/Province) credit for projects that MAY happen at some point in the distant future...

 

[Northern Light]

I have no faith that any of those projects will be completed anytime soon, or on budget.

The Dundas West Link is under construction, and will be finished in the next year or so, whether it will be on budget, I make no guarantees, but that certainly isn't on Gord one way or the other.

Councillors do not manage project budgets, except, periodically to goose them to get something extra done.

Has he improved transit in his Ward in any way in the 20 years he's been in power? It doesn't have to be a subway station - for example, it could be a dedicated streetcar lane, express bus service, even something like the King St Pilot project...

I'm not sure where you want your dedicated streetcar lane.

Yes, routine transit isn't as good as it should be, but that's not unique to Gord's Ward. Its City-wide. That's partly a funding issue; that's partly several years of terrible leadership at TTC, and its partly assorted councillors (and Mayors) who get in
the way of things that would let transit run better. (example, reducing on-street parking, or prohibiting left turns that block streetcars etc. )

I can't speak to the specifics of what Gord has/hasn't done on that file in the ward.

The Bloor subway in his Ward predates him by about 40 years!

I wasn't giving him credit for it; I was merely pointing out the area already has a subway, where many areas of the City do not, and many will continue not to for decades to come.

"Frequent all-day GO" service - once again something that we've been talking about for decades that doesn't exist.

That is the responsibility of the province. For clarity, a vast service increase for GO was contemplated for this January, and I don't mean vaguely.........regrettably poor management by GO, Alstom and the incoming OnExpress has likely reduced that in scale substantially if not delayed it entirely. We should know on that score in the next few days at most.

It seems as though you are far more willing to give him (and the City/Province) credit for projects that MAY happen at some point in the distant future...

4 projects, one under construction and two to begin this coming year............not that distant.

****

You've been here at UT more than a year, if you've followed my posting, you'll know I'm a sharp critic of poor public policy, poor project management and will lay that at the feet of whomever has earned it, be they politicians or civil servants.

I've criticized Gord for many things, I don't take issue w/that.

I also, frankly, think he should step aside in the next election as its time for another voice to have a say............

But I will also oppose exaggerating his flaws and over-reaching statements not supported by evidence, irrespective of their target.

****

On that note, I think this exchange has run its course, and we should leave this thread to discuss the actual project.

 

[tomatohat]

Passed by today, and it looks like work is still ongoing.

 

[kotsy]

Perhaps because noise barriers are a good thing for the neighbourhood whether the station is happening or not.