Toronto King East Centre | 140m | 39s | First Gulf | WZMH

[DSC]

Up to now, every presentation I have heard/seen says No Frills will be there and I am not too worried that they may be pushed out. It's a busy store that serves a growing area. (Including me!!) I can see some 'tweaks' that will give them at least the square footage they have now.

Perhaps it's wishful thinking (!) but I was thinking of connecting the two fairly large retail areas to make one. Bottom line is that the area REALLY needs a large supermarket (NoFrills is well patronized now, when more buildings open around - and above - it will be crowded.) Developers clearly want retail that they can rent and renting a large amount of space is usually easier and more profitable for owners than several smaller spaces.

 

[interchange42]

It's possible that No Frills might reopen in the easterly retail space(s - there's wall shown down the side of the larger area that carves off about 4,000 of the 20,000 sq ft, but that wall could go if need be…). The current No Frills is about 30,000 square feet, so a new one there would be either two thirds or one half the size of the current one.

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[dusk]

I know that many point to the rightmost unit but it saddens me that this location is shrinking at all. I'd like to see a larger, not smaller footprint for this location but alas.

 

[Northern Light]

It's possible that No Frills might reopen in the easterly retail space(s - there's wall shown down the side of the larger area that carves off about 4,000 of the 20,000 sq ft, but that wall could go if need be…). The current No Frills is about 30,000 square feet, so a new one there would be either two thirds or one half the size of the current one.

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The current No Frills is even larger than that, (and larger than I thought)............I looked it up.

They lease 37, 901 ft2 in the current complex.

 

[dusk]

The current No Frills is even larger than that, (and larger than I thought)............I looked it up.

They lease 37, 901 ft2 in the current complex.

So 50% shrinkage if not more... great

Makes perfect sense given the increased population and mixed income nature of the neighbourhood

 

[AlexBozikovic]

The architectural expression at grade is a problem. Curtain wall with things sticking out of the second floor does not provide a good eye-level experience.

They are doubling down on the vertical-fins strategy from next door and the things-that-are-the-same-colour-as-red-brick strategy from the data centre. These don't work.

 

[Northern Light]

So 50% shrinkage if not more... great

Makes perfect sense given the increased population and mixed income nature of the neighbourhood

Watch for a trend to smaller store formats; the increased online business is changing thoughts on store format sizes.

I'm' not saying everything is dropping to 20,000ft2 or less; but I do think you'll see the range of sizes trend downwards.

This is especially true downtown where rents are at a premium, and there's more desire for walkable distances to stores as well.

 

[Amare]

Watch for a trend to smaller store formats; the increased online business is changing thoughts on store format sizes.

I'm' not saying everything is dropping to 20,000ft2 or less; but I do think you'll see the range of sizes trend downwards.

This is especially true downtown where rents are at a premium, and there's more desire for walkable distances to stores as well.

Which is a dangerous trend that many grocers will regret IMO. They tend to forget that trends can change quickly, and what was once popular can shift in a heartbeat.

The retailers who fail to realize this will get bit in the bum by this, especially in a city which is projected for major population growth year after year. Whichever grocers think that traffic to their stores will decrease solely because of online shopping are dreadfully wrong.

 

[Northern Light]

Which is a dangerous trend that many grocers will regret IMO. They tend to forget that trends can change quickly, and what was once popular can shift in a heartbeat.

The retailers who fail to realize this will get bit in the bum by this, especially in a city which is projected for major population growth year after year. Whichever grocers think that traffic to their stores will decrease solely because of online shopping are dreadfully wrong.

Keep in mind, several new supermarkets are in the pipeline in the downtown area.

Not 1 or 2.......several.

 

[interchange42]

Keep in mind, several new supermarkets are in the pipeline in the downtown area.

Not 1 or 2.......several.

As we turn more to active transportation, people will want shorter walks or bike rides to them. That will mean less comparison shopping and and more reliance on whichever store is the closest… while at the same time, such purchases as 48 triple-rolls of Charmin, 6-litre jugs of hand soap refills, and 3kg multipacks of Fruitsations will become the domain of delivery services (so I suspect that shelf space for multipack items will gradually disappear as those products move more and more to distribution centres.). Walk-in stores won't need, therefore, to be quite as large, and that will dovetail with just not enough space for the larger ones downtown in most cases anyway. Being able to walk 5 minutes to a grocery store in one direction and 3 minutes to another chain in another direction will become an ever more important reason for people to choose one location to live over another.

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[evandyk]

Being able to walk 5 minutes to a grocery store in one direction and 3 minutes to another chain in another direction will become an ever more important reason for people to choose one location to live over another.

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Even though we own a car, I hate driving it, so we do pretty much everything on foot. Moving to St. Lawrence from the Annex was like dying and going to grocery heaven. No more drives out to the No Frills at Lansdowne and College!

 

[Northern Light]

Even though we own a car, I hate driving it, so we do pretty much everything on foot. Moving to St. Lawrence from the Annex was like dying and going to grocery heaven. No more drives out to the No Frills at Lansdowne and College!

You made me look; the Annex isn't half bad for grocery, provided you're not budget-conscious. I mean Whole Foods at the eastern end, Metro on Bloor, Loblaws on Dupont; and then assorted
higher-end, smaller shops.

Not so good if you need the large discounter.

****

Got me to thinking.........I know a major supermarket retailer had looked the Mirvish Village site at one point.
So I went and had a look-see at the brochure. There's nothing full-sized in the plans............
I was amused though, to see a single 12,875ft2 spot on level P2 below. As it stands, the largest ground-floor space will tip in at just over 14,000ft2.

That was a bit of digression, as such, I now return this thread to its intended topic!

 

[DSC]

Keep in mind, several new supermarkets are in the pipeline in the downtown area.

Not 1 or 2.......several.

I suggest that the location of large grocery stores in the downtown area is not terribly relevant - I suggest most people shop in the closest one. I live in St Lawrence and will, probably, go to the closest one - in my case I am about equidistant from No Frills on Front , Metro @ Church and Loblaws on QQE so have lots of choice but we do virtually of all our basic shopping at No Frills( or Rabba) and buy 90% of our vegetables and 99% of our meat from the St Lawrence Market. Though I lived here before No Frills (or the now gone Sobeys) , arrived I must say having a close NF is a very useful (and the staff at our NF are very pleasant!)

 

[evandyk]

You made me look; the Annex isn't half bad for grocery, provided you're not budget-conscious. I mean Whole Foods at the eastern end, Metro on Bloor, Loblaws on Dupont; and then assorted higher-end, smaller shops.

Obviously someone like me who hates driving is not going to live somewhere that has no walkable grocery options. But if you live in the heart of the Annex (say Walmer and Bloor), realistically your options for groceries are Metro or driving. It had some nice perks such as the Rowe Farms, and Kensington is easily walkable if you just need a few things. And PAT!

 

[Northern Light]

Obviously someone like me who hates driving is not going to live somewhere that has no walkable grocery options. But if you live in the heart of the Annex (say Walmer and Bloor), realistically your options for groceries are Metro or driving. It had some nice perks such as the Rowe Farms, and Kensington is easily walkable if you just need a few things. And PAT!

I typically do about 1/2 my shopping by car, in the eastern part of East York; but I also regularly head downtown, and grab a couple of days' groceries from different places; be that St. Lawrence Market, Whole Foods, Sanagans et al in Kensington etc. and then head home by transit.

But I'm shopping for myself plus one.

So I understand that for families (larger amounts of grocery) and those who are time-pressed, this may not work as well.