Toronto Karma Condos | 165.8m | 50s | Lifetime | a—A

That comment makes no sense and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of real estate or construction logistics -....- the marketplace is demanding smaller units, so despite the issues I've outlined above, it’s a less risky proposition to develop a product that will quickly be absorbed by the marketplace.

This is a developer telling the great unwashed of Toronto "hey jerk, if you want to live downtown, you'll take what I give you - and you'll pay through the nose for it too". It always amazes me how many people on this site will defend the developer who thrusts this crap on us instead of defending those who have less and are forced to live in such cramped inhumane quarters. And I'm tired of hearing about how someone lived quite well in such units in New York or some other metropolital cluster of squallor.

Just because it has been done ruthlessly elsewhwere doen't mean we have to accept it here. Aren't we supposed to grow as a society and learn from our mistakes? Saying it was done in other urban centres is hardly a compelling case. Have you ever thought that if enough people complained or stood up for decent accomodation the developers might have to concede? Your ease at concluding that people of lesser means don't deserve any better is very disappointing.
 
This is a developer telling the great unwashed of Toronto "hey jerk, if you want to live downtown, you'll take what I give you - and you'll pay through the nose for it too". It always amazes me how many people on this site will defend the developer who thrusts this crap on us instead of defending those who have less and are forced to live in such cramped inhumane quarters. And I'm tired of hearing about how someone lived quite well in such units in New York or some other metropolital cluster of squallor.

Just because it has been done ruthlessly elsewhwere doen't mean we have to accept it here. Aren't we supposed to grow as a society and learn from our mistakes? Saying it was done in other urban centres is hardly a compelling case. Have you ever thought that if enough people complained or stood up for decent accomodation the developers might have to concede? Your ease at concluding that people of lesser means don't deserve any better is very disappointing.

It would be fascinating to hear you explain your understanding of development and construction economics - it seems you really have a lot to learn. And you had the gall to preface that collection of misspelled words and misguided thoughts by quoting Mike in TO (ouch, rookie mistake).
 
Many of the investors buying these tiny units are from east Asian cities used to cramped quarters, but those who will be renting, and many potential buyers once the downturn hits are local, and will want more space. I think these units will be regretted, and will take the biggest hit in resale value down the line. Also, as has been mentioned, vibrant cities have a diversity of household and family types that are discouraged with bldgs of so many small units. I don't support explicit minimums on apt sizes, but the buyers of these places do not reflect the eventual tenants and subsequent owners, and there are larger social sustainability issues we need to remember, and somehow get developers to get on side with good city building sometimes at the expense of profit maximization. I won't hold my breath.
 
It would be fascinating to hear you explain your understanding of development and construction economics - it seems you really have a lot to learn. And you had the gall to preface that collection of misspelled words and misguided thoughts by quoting Mike in TO (ouch, rookie mistake).

He seems to understand perfectly well that in this case, "development and construction economics" appear to result in a diminished quality of life.
 
10-15 years ago there were very few studios available in the downtown core, or elsewhere. These units now compete with the older, larger, further-outside-the-core apartment and housing rental units that me and all my friends lived in when we graduated in the late 90s. Rents then were nearly as high as today. If someone who can afford rent between $1,000 - $1,500 per month wants a slightly longer subway commute with more space, I presume those units are still available at competitive rents. In those circumstantances, I might choose one myself. But this apartment is at Yonge and College. If you mandate 600 sq. ft. studios then prices and rents will match. Actually, if you mandate 600 sq. ft. studios, condo building as we know it would likely come to a screeching halt.

Big Daddy, you may be tired about hearing how others lived in small apartments quite comfortably in other cities, I get tired of hearing I should buy a 2500 sq. ft house in Oakville. To each his own. There is choice in the market. If you want to live downtown, there are tradeoffs. The difference is that now there are units being built downtown, whereas 10 years ago there were very few.

I agree that less than 400 sq. ft seems a bit cramped, but people buying or renting small units in brand new condos have a choice. There are big public housing issues in this city but people renting brand new condos are not the first people we need to worry about. Some would argue that small units are the wave of the future and the more environmental choice. I won't bother with that debate, but this is supply and demand and if the investors are wrong about the demand for small units they will lose money, people will stop buying them, and developers will stop building them. There very well may be overbuilding, but that is a different debate from whether it is inhumane to live in in the centre of town in a 400 sq. ft apartment with hardwood floors, granite countertops, stainless steel appliances, 24-hour security and an amenities floor.
 
There's an ethical argument to be made in favour of tiny apartments: smaller living space = smaller carbon footrprint = less contribution to global warming -- an issue of increasing concern for the twenty-somethings who are inhabiting these cramped quarters (and probably walking to work too).
 
I hope the OMB decides to grant an approval that is even less than what they got now ... that should teach Lanterra to be more grateful such to not appeal an approval decision @ 46s in the future ~

can the OMB do that? if the two parties go in at 46 (city) and 52 (lifetime) then how can the OMB rule at a number below both? doesn't make sense. but i'm not familiar so can someone expand/clarify this for me?
 
I think he was being hyperbolous, sarcastic. They will not rule for less than 46s.

as for the argument on unit sizes, I can kind of relate to both points of view. I have it in my long term plans to downsize and I've enjoyed lots of hotel rooms, apartments and condos while travelling. Its opened my eyes to the fact that as long as all the basic amenities are at hand, then space to some extent becomes an uneeded luxury. To me, smaller size = more freedom. I do think with this specific studio that its greatest negative is that you would not get to enjoy the comfort of a real bed (unless you didnt mind a bed also serving as a couch). For me the future is about all of us owning less junk and occupying less space. But as the point has been made, there is still choice out there - nobody is being forced to buy or live in this unit and in many cases its a trade-off in (low)price and (small) size vs. (central)location.

I continue to be worried that aA persits as the local architect of choice. It is leading to a terrible monoculture in post 2000 point towers in this city. I've just come back from a long weekend in NYC and was once again blown away by how many of their point towers make use of brick. And nice quality brick too, not the discount varieties we seem to have left over from the 1980's. I agree with several other commentors that the base / entry of this building is quite attractive, but the pile on top is utterly devoid of "Karma". (well the good kind anyway)
 
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Karma's scale model from BuzzBuzzHome:

Karma.jpg
 
All these glass towers are looking alike to me. Don't developers/architects have any imagination? Why are all the condo towers today being built with glass? Is it cheaper?
 
All these glass towers are looking alike to me. Don't developers/architects have any imagination? Why are all the condo towers today being built with glass? Is it cheaper?

I-MAG-I-NA-TION?? That's a synonym for profit, right? I don't quite follow.. (LOL)

I kinda like the mechanical box though. But ya, it's just going to look like Burano/Murano's lil brother; Fauxrano.
 
I found a small space to be completely acceptable when single but fairly intolerable once partnered. It's like there is an exponential need for space once there is more than one of you... and if there are children involved? Forget it. It seems to me that the proliferation of all these small units is short-sighted. There is definitely a need for some but it isn't the right way to plan and develop long term for a liveable city of families who will only be forced out in the long run for space.
 

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