Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TOareaFan]

I can see residents in Port Credit calling for a tunnel if Brampton were to magically get theirs fully funded.

Interesting...but the re-working of the original plan to satisfy Mississauga did not lead to any openness to changes to suit/satisfy Brampton....that sort of thinking may actually be contributing to the opposition in Brampton at the council level.

 

[Tuscani01]

Interesting...but the re-working of the original plan to satisfy Mississauga did not lead to any openness to changes to suit/satisfy Brampton....that sort of thinking may actually be contributing to the opposition in Brampton at the council level.

So you are agreeing with what I am saying. "That sort of thinking may actually be contributing to the opposition in Brampton at the council level."

That's precisely my point. Changes made to Mississauga's portion have empowered the opposition to the project in Brampton. There is no openness to change it, but there is opposition to the current plan, and this opposition recognizes that Mississauga was able to get changes. The minute downtown Brampton gets funding for a tunnel, Port Credit will be wondering why they couldn't get funding for a tunnel also.

 

[TOareaFan]

So you are agreeing with what I am saying. "That sort of thinking may actually be contributing to the opposition in Brampton at the council level."

That's precisely my point. Changes made to Mississauga's portion have empowered the opposition to the project in Brampton. There is no openness to change it, but there is opposition to the current plan, and this opposition recognizes that Mississauga was able to get changes. The minute downtown Brampton gets funding for a tunnel, Port Credit will be wondering why they couldn't get funding for a tunnel also.

I think there is some small element of the opposition that is doing a "what they got...what we are getting" comparison....I also think it is more a derivative factor (ie. those that oppose the route bring that up to get an emotional response and support from people who, generally, just feel that Mississauga gets a better treatment in "most things")....I don't think that, by any stretch, it is the biggest source of opposition because, frankly, most people in Brampton only became aware of the line in the last 6 months or so...and by that time the southern part of the line in Mississauga had already been canned and the "single ride straight down main/hurontario" had already changed to allow for the double loop and change of trains around MCC.....people who truly believe that the difference in treatments of the cities concerns is a reason to oppose this have, to a large extent, been brought to that point by people opposed to it for other reasons.

 

[gweed123]

The last two phases are going ahead. Those are/were the Bovaird line (in service), the Steeles west extension (in service) and the Queen West extension up to Mt Pleasant (in service next year). The federal/provincial/municipal funding may have just been for the 3 lines in the first phase (I do not recall) but the Phase II extensions (however they were funded) do not seem to be under any pressure as 2 of the 3 are in service and the final one is in the works.

That's good news then, I stand corrected!

That's precisely my point. Changes made to Mississauga's portion have empowered the opposition to the project in Brampton. There is no openness to change it, but there is opposition to the current plan, and this opposition recognizes that Mississauga was able to get changes. The minute downtown Brampton gets funding for a tunnel, Port Credit will be wondering why they couldn't get funding for a tunnel also.

Hopefully if Brampton does opt for a tunnel, Metrolinx will tell them to cover the delta in the costs between the current surface option and the proposed tunnel option. If that is the case, then I suspect Metrolinx will tell Mississauga the same thing with respect to Port Credit.

 

[TOareaFan]

Hopefully if Brampton does opt for a tunnel, Metrolinx will tell them to cover the delta in the costs between the current surface option and the proposed tunnel option. If that is the case, then I suspect Metrolinx will tell Mississauga the same thing with respect to Port Credit.

The current position of the province is "accept it as is or it gets built and stopped at Steeles".......so Brampton's decision due by October 31 is to accept the current route/plan or reject it....province has said they are not going to negotiate route/plan.

 

[drum118]

That's good news then, I stand corrected!



Hopefully if Brampton does opt for a tunnel, Metrolinx will tell them to cover the delta in the costs between the current surface option and the proposed tunnel option. If that is the case, then I suspect Metrolinx will tell Mississauga the same thing with respect to Port Credit.

The plan to take the line into Port Credit is still live, but caught up into a transportation study. The province doesn't care if the line is on Port St or Lakeshore as long it goes to the Port Credit River. Where it goes after that is Mississauga issue and that what will be looked at under the transportation Study.

I have no issues waiting a few years for this study since it was never study in the first place, Imperial Oil Lands were DOA as well redevelopment of the Marina. The redevelopment of the Marina saw a new end point of the line. Then Imperial Oil open a can of worms for the end point and this got the transportation study started.

The province will have no issue in having this phase built either during the main construction or after since it will save them paying for that phase at a later date and help with the cash flow for them.

Lets do it right from day one, not after the OPPS!! take place.

As for Brampton, they want a tunnel, they pay the full cost. You want a different route, you pay the full cost. The tunnel is the worst thing to happen there and not need for it other than having cars dictate how residents and cities live.

 

[TOareaFan]

The province will have no issue in having this phase built either during the main construction or after since it will save them paying for that phase at a later date and help with the cash flow for them.

So the province does show flexibility on routing/planning? Perhaps that is the way to deal with Brampton...take the route to Steeles and then identify north of Steeles as a future phase? That is very different than their current stance of "vote against the current route and it stops at Steeles forever and the money we save goes to other communities and other projects in the regional plan"

Lets do it right from day one, not after the OPPS!! take place.

What are OPPS?

As for Brampton, they want a tunnel, they pay the full cost. You want a different route, you pay the full cost. The tunnel is the worst thing to happen there and not need for it other than having cars dictate how residents and cities live.

Not sure Brampton council is, or ever has, said they want a tunnel....it happens to be one of the options/alternatives in a long list that some want studied/considered but, watching the last debate, none of the currently dissenting 5 nor the undecided 1 have said "we want a tunnel". As for Brampton paying for any ammended routing...how much exactly is Mississauga paying for the loop around MCC...surely that ammendment to the original proposal should be dealt with similarly....no?

(Note: I am not in favour of any of the alternate routes.....as I have said before, while I am opposed to the whole thing I generally feel that if this thing has to be built the current plan is the best.....but it does interest me how easily people throw that threat/challenge at Brampton).

 

[howl]

If Bramptonians want a tunnel because a surface route is too disruptive they should come down to Eglinton to see exactly what a tunnel means as far as disruption.

 

[MDV3]

How does everyone feel about an elevated Hurontario LRT? Anyone on this forum ride the Skytrain in Vancouver? I haven't personally but it sounds like a serious option for Mississauga none the less. Opinions?

 

[TOareaFan]

How does everyone feel about an elevated Hurontario LRT? Anyone on this forum ride the Skytrain in Vancouver? I haven't personally but it sounds like a serious option for Mississauga none the less. Opinions?

I have used the SkyTrain and liked it.....it seems very appropriate for the setting/context it is in. That said, it would be inappropriate in the southern and northern legs of HMLRT (ie. Port Credit and Downtown Brampton) and it is unnecessary to elevate it in the middle bit.

So, in summary, as good as the SkyTrain is....it can teach us that transit is not one size fits all and context matters.....and it would be the wrong thing (IMO) to elevate the HMLRT.

 

[howl]

How does everyone feel about an elevated Hurontario LRT? Anyone on this forum ride the Skytrain in Vancouver? I haven't personally but it sounds like a serious option for Mississauga none the less. Opinions?

Two points.

First, that ship sailed five years ago when the EA was done. If they switched to an elevated line now they would have to start right from scratch again which would put the project completions date back another four or five years.

Second, there is no reason to elevate or bury the line. The road is wide enough and the number of LRT vehicles isn't so high that it warrants complete separation. It would be a waste of money. Completely separated lines are only necessary when you need to move lots and lots of people in a very constrained area.

 

[drum118]

I said in a 2003 report that an elevated line would be needed if the land use for traffic can't be remove from a plan 9 lane road corridor to a 5 line as well if ridership exceeded 125,000 for a surface line. There is no need for a subway for at least 100 years, if at all. Ridership was under 25k then. Today its around 32k

The city has realizes it made a mistake both in planning the 9 lane corridor in the 80's as well building it with 7 lanes in 2000 to the point it wants to use the excess land for development in front of existing buildings. They want to reduce lanes city wide.

To do that, you will have to either shift the road to one side as well tear down various building to do it right.

As noted, you need to start a new EA to do this that will set things back years, but most of all, you got a worse mess for Brampton. The Halton Sub is in the way. It will be more costly to do and no extra money in the pot to do it.

 

[TOareaFan]

I seem to recall the very early days of this route being pitched as a straight line up Hurontario and Main....there is a meeting going on in Brampton to discuss various routes (which is a bit strange to me because the province has been clear ....vote yeah or nay on current route but they are not interested in discussing alternatives).....a reporter I follow has been live tweeting from the meeting and one person at the meeting brought up the MCC loop that was added in....Mississauga's CAO responded by saying the loop was in always in the plan.....is that right? I really thought it was a change that was made early in the process but not a day one thing

 

[doady]

http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/...-Plan/Hurontario_Master_Plan_Final_LowRes.pdf

The MCC loop was part of the 2010 Master Plan that resulted from the Hurontario-Main corridor study that began in 2008. If you know of an earlier plan, then please let us know.

 

[gweed123]

http://lrt-mississauga.brampton.ca/...-Plan/Hurontario_Master_Plan_Final_LowRes.pdf

The MCC loop was part of the 2010 Master Plan that resulted from the Hurontario-Main corridor study that began in 2008. If you know of an earlier plan, then please let us know.

Either way, 2010 is far from a "late addition". I believe there have been a few different service plans for the loop, but the infrastructure itself has been a part of the plan for as long as I can remember. Certainly in no way comparable to the alternatives being presented in Brampton.