TOareaFan
Superstar
People love the "strong mayor" concept until there is a mayor they don't like. What would the reaction on these boards have been to a strong mayor system during the Rob Ford time as Mayor (for example).
People love the "strong mayor" concept until there is a mayor they don't like. What would the reaction on these boards have been to a strong mayor system during the Rob Ford time as Mayor (for example).
TOareaFan
Superstar
The suggestion that Bramptonians are transit apathetic is ridiculous. Like our neighburs in Durham there is daily use of GO trains (the 3 Brampton stations account for a lot of the ridership on the KW line) and, as these numbers suggest, Brampton Transit sees a lot of use and that number grows annually.
http://www.brampton.ca/EN/residents/transit/facts-figures/Pages/RidershipStats.aspx
Rather than apathy, I think what has happened here is that as the vote approached people began to realize just how little this line affected the lives of the majority of people in Brampton....just how few people living here would benefit from it....just how little it would change the travel/commute/traffic patterns in town and started questioning/communicating with their councillors.
I saw somewhere, the councillor who had the deciding vote (the one who moved the deferral) being described as a NIMBY.....he happens to be one of my councillors and I can tell you that no one he represents is at all affected in their daily lives by this line......and that is the issue.
Sure there are the vague promises of "first steps" and "future growth" but when a city establishes a transportation master plan in 2004 and updates in every 5 years and communicates it the province every time listing their transportation priorities and waits, and waits for some support in those priorities...some indication they may be dealt with and then the province comes in in 2015 and says "here, as part of this bigger project part of your 3rd priority will be dealt with" it is kinda hard to accept the "don't worry, the rest will happen in time" answer.
Not sure what happened this week can be described as "apathy" but more an awaking from apathy. Hopefully ML will also awaken as each of the councillors opposed included passionate pleas to ML and the province to start listening/talking/implementing the TMP wish list.
BurlOak
Senior Member
I like the strong Mayor system, not the dictator mayor system. Give the mayor the power of about half of council. That way 3/4 of the councillors would be able to stop the mayor. Last term, Ford may have had some more power at the start, but by the middle and end the 3/4 of the councillors would have still stripped him of his powers.
CDL.TO
Moderator
I'm certainly no fan of Ford, but I still support a strong mayor system.
A Strong Mayor system doesn't mean getting rid of council to hold the mayor to account. It doesn't mean ruling by fiat. If we had a strong mayor when Ford was in office, council could still vote against his motions.
A strong mayor system recognizes the need for a mayor to present a vision and agenda for the city as a whole, and gives that mayor the tools to advance that agenda.
A Strong Mayor system doesn't mean getting rid of council to hold the mayor to account. It doesn't mean ruling by fiat. If we had a strong mayor when Ford was in office, council could still vote against his motions.
A strong mayor system recognizes the need for a mayor to present a vision and agenda for the city as a whole, and gives that mayor the tools to advance that agenda.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Maybe I am missing the point of what is being suggested here in the context of the HMLRT....it seemed people were saying if the Mayor had more power, some kind of super vote, that matters of city-wide or regional importance could not be derailed by the votes of councillors who, by definition, are more concerned by local, perhaps even micro-local, concerns. You seem to say the strong mayor could not override the votes of local councillors....to which i would respond, what's the point then...isn't that what we have now.
CDL.TO
Moderator
Yes, you're right that this isn't the place to discuss the possible design of a strong mayor system. There's a number of ways it can be designed, either with or without a veto.
Though I will say that there's a lot more to local government than the votes on the council floor.
Though I will say that there's a lot more to local government than the votes on the council floor.
Transportfan
Senior Member
This debate goes to show how useless the Regional governments are. Why doesn't Peel get involved?
TOareaFan
Superstar
because in the context of Peel, transit is not a matter which has been given over to the regional government.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
In Peel, transit should be under a regional control. Maybe even under control of Metrolinx or some other GTA authority.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Perhaps...there are arguments both ways....but I was answering the very factual question about why Peel is not involved in this debate/decision with a very factual answer about the current situation.
howl
Active Member
The Region of Peel council is sort of like the Canadian Senate. They collect paychecks but they don't actually do much. The HMLRT is exactly the sort of thing a Regional government should be spearheading. The Province and Mississauga are running the project only because the Region is impotent.
Evening
New Member
As a citizen of Brampton, this whole episode just furthers my dislike of municipal/regional government. The whole level of government is largely unaccountable, too weak, and always divided. Only about 30% of people vote in municipal elections outside of Toronto and most of them are old people. Most people don;t even know their councilors names. I would much rather have the provincial government fully in charge with some provincial appointed person in charge of municipal affairs for each community. If there is a problem, we still have MPPs to complain to and a government we actually know about and is held accountable to some extent to make changes for us.
It is beyond ridiculous that these unaccountable councillors who want to preserve a rundown downtown that no one visits from a FREE lrt that can revitalize our core. Sigh.
It is beyond ridiculous that these unaccountable councillors who want to preserve a rundown downtown that no one visits from a FREE lrt that can revitalize our core. Sigh.
TOareaFan
Superstar
How is municipal/regional government unaccountable? They stand for election every 4 years and only have local issues to deal with...they are the most accountable level of government there is. You may not like this municipal government but that is a different issue......but sure if you want the province to eliminate the local levels of government I am sure that will be swell.
pstogios
Senior Member
I'm trying to find some documents online that show the Zum ridership by route. If the 502 Main route has strong ridership and higher than the Queen, wouldn't that suggest upgrading Main to LRT before Queen is prudent?
I couldn't find such info. Perhaps someone else knows where to find the ridership numbers.
And this anger that the supposed #1 transit priority of Brampton (Ad2W on the Kitchener line) is being neglected confuses me. The province has committed to electrification of this line. This is a major priority now. Much of the work has been done as part of the Georgetown South project and construction of the UPX. Also, Metrolinx is making progress acquiring stretches of track on this line from CN and hopefully full ownership is within sight.
How is this neglecting this transit priority?
I couldn't find such info. Perhaps someone else knows where to find the ridership numbers.
And this anger that the supposed #1 transit priority of Brampton (Ad2W on the Kitchener line) is being neglected confuses me. The province has committed to electrification of this line. This is a major priority now. Much of the work has been done as part of the Georgetown South project and construction of the UPX. Also, Metrolinx is making progress acquiring stretches of track on this line from CN and hopefully full ownership is within sight.
How is this neglecting this transit priority?
doady
Senior Member
Queen is higher ridership. But Main is better for connectivity. The bulk of Queen buses go York U along the 407 for example. VIVA along Highway 7 in Vaughan was a massive failure and I can't imagine LRT being successful. So where would the LRT connect to, that is the problem.
Average Weekday Boardings, 2012
1 Queen 6360
501 Zuem Queen 15883
2 Main 2720
502 Zuem Main 9244
http://dmg.utoronto.ca/pdf/tts/2011/validation2011.pdf#45
Compare Main's ridership before Zuem. The connection Mississauga mades a huge a difference.
Average Weekday Boardings, 2012
1 Queen 9724
2 Main 3633
http://dmg.utoronto.ca/pdf/tts/2006/validation2006.pdf#42
Downtown Brampton is supposed to be a hub. But if Shopper's World becomes the hub instead...? I don't understand why Brampton wouldn't want to reinforce their downtown and make it part of what is already the busiest transit corridor in the 905. At the same time, it would reinforce the GO service and Queen bus...
Average Weekday Boardings, 2012
1 Queen 6360
501 Zuem Queen 15883
2 Main 2720
502 Zuem Main 9244
http://dmg.utoronto.ca/pdf/tts/2011/validation2011.pdf#45
Compare Main's ridership before Zuem. The connection Mississauga mades a huge a difference.
Average Weekday Boardings, 2012
1 Queen 9724
2 Main 3633
http://dmg.utoronto.ca/pdf/tts/2006/validation2006.pdf#42
Downtown Brampton is supposed to be a hub. But if Shopper's World becomes the hub instead...? I don't understand why Brampton wouldn't want to reinforce their downtown and make it part of what is already the busiest transit corridor in the 905. At the same time, it would reinforce the GO service and Queen bus...