nfitz
Superstar
Why would you do that? Caledon councillors would simply vote to eliminate transit at every vote, making it very difficult to sustain service in Mississauga and Brampton. Why would you want to give Caledon votes over transit?
howl
Active Member
If that's the case if then we shouldn't let the Province run it either because MP's from Northern Ontario would simply vote against anything for the GTA,
The Regional Government was set up to take care of things of regional importance. If the councilors who sit on the regional board are only thinking about local economic and development issues then they should be replaced by people who can do the job properly.
drum118
Superstar
Time to eliminate all parties and have Only have The Region of Peel run the whole area.
Peel Transit should have existed on the day the Region of Peel was created or at least 10-15 years ago. Solve this issue very quickly.
In time, an LRT will be needed not only for Queen, but Steeles as well. Need to get the north leg up and running by 2035 or sooner since this will be your density area. If all corners of Steeles and Hurontario became tall towers, this will be the transit hub as well having density that not there now.
Peel Transit should have existed on the day the Region of Peel was created or at least 10-15 years ago. Solve this issue very quickly.
In time, an LRT will be needed not only for Queen, but Steeles as well. Need to get the north leg up and running by 2035 or sooner since this will be your density area. If all corners of Steeles and Hurontario became tall towers, this will be the transit hub as well having density that not there now.
rbt
Senior Member
If the Premier (who often gives direction on this kind of thing) was from a northern portion of Ontario, something like that might happen; it certainly did last time and Nipissing isn't exactly far north.
crs1026
Superstar
It may not be the #1 priority in Brampton Council's mind, true. But it is the longest-standing commitment the Province has made to transit users northwest of the GTA.
The stated 2010 plan was 29 GO trains per day after UPX. The line, as Georgetown South has left it, still has choke-points (that were known in 2010) that constrain even a 29-train schedule. There has been no funding committed to address this. At his last presser in Bramalea, the Minister admitted that there is no timetable for doing anything more.
With the emergence of Smarttrack and RER, the planning for this line has actually cycled backwards, as these are now taking priority and the plans for this line have to be rewritten accordingly. So we are back to studying instead of building.
Electrification of UPX is clearly on its way, and supposedly some more GO trains may be added over the next year. The world may not have ended, but it's galling watching the Province claim so much credit over the years (it has been a decade now) for launching this when the concrete steps required (pun intended) to finish this have still not been initiated.
- Paul
TOareaFan
Superstar
Be that as it may, the pressure in Mississauga is not to further combine the region and add services to regional responsibility, the "buzz" from there is that there are political forces to dismantle Peel entirely and have the municipalities revert to single tier government.
yep....all four corners here will become tall towers....all that is holding them back is an LRT
Attachments
mpd618
Active Member
The Regional Municipality of Waterloo is composed of the cities of Kitchener, Cambridge, and Waterloo, and the townships of Woolwich, Wellesley, Wilmot, and North Dumfries. In 2000, the Region took over transit from Kitchener (which served Waterloo as well) and Cambridge. It was part of a plan to improve the transit network, and there has been steady, large growth in transit investment and ridership since then. Regional council has 11 members from the cities and four from the townships, plus the chair.
Transit is area-rated to the cities and not the townships, which has made transit clearly a city issue, and one on which township mayors defer to the cities.
doady
Senior Member
Peel Region isn't a region. Peel Region Transit would just be Mississauga-Brampton Transit. That's not regional transit. If it was Halton-Peel Transit, that would be regional transit.
drum118
Superstar
First of all, you do away with the current setup how Peel Council works today. You divide the area by X position based on X size to the point Caledon would see less representation.
City of Mississauga has wanted to be out of the Peel Region for over a decade since they where paying most of the bills for everyone at the expensive of their own taxpayers. Today, Brampton has almost caught up to Mississauga on the funding issue which leaves Caledon not supporting their share of cost.
By having A Region Of Peel in control of everything, you deal with Transit a lot better as well the growth of the region. Caledon only talks LRT, yet refused to have buses service it At the same time, you cut 50% of duplication of service, as well personal to run things.
One cannot look at a transit map based on today info to say this is what is needed to do the job, but a 15-25-50 year vision as what can take place to drive the real technology to support the needs in those time frame.
Region of Peel is no different than York, Durham, Waterloo, Chatham-Kent, other than it doesn't have "ONE" transit system, but 2.
As for numbers on 502, you have to be careful. It does now include ridership that once was carry by 19 from Shoppers World which now stop at 407 and 502 now going to Sq One. What does this change do to 19 ridership numbers today? Also, since passes are not allow to be used on both systems as well Oakville for transferring, numbers have change. Come Jan 1st, 2016, that will change when Mississauga does away with all fare media other than the Presto and cash to use anyone service. Long over due. Up to a few years ago, you could travel from York Region to Hamilton on one fare and that is dead now on the 2 hour window and no exchanging transfers.
As noted, A Regional Transit System would include Peel and Halton as a sub section to the Real Regional Transit System covering 416/905/702 or from Windsor to Kingston known as The Southern Region System.
One other thing, the Chair of Peel is "NOT" elected which I say is wrong, but appointed. It cost Mississauga about $500,000 to elected a new councilor since that councilor decided to run for the chair position at the first Region meeting after October election.
muller877
Senior Member
Most municipalities that have a rural/urban divide have similar issues. The voting structure of quite a few are deliberately designed so that the urban area cannot override the rural area and arbitrarily force additional taxes/services on them. But likewise the rural members do not have a super-majority.
For example, Chatham/Kent has about 110,000 people with about 1/2 in Chatham and Wallaceburg. 8 of the 17 council members are urban. The same for Oxford County. You can go through a list and this was deliberately done. You need a consensus from both the urban members and a portion of the rural members for most things to pass (note that the rural area is very large and is not homogeneous in voting).
I assume the same was true when Peel was formed. You had Mississauga which was urban and Brampton/Caledon which were rural. So you needed some consensus before anything was passed. But now with Mississauga and Brampton being urban there is a lack of balance.
It's not just transit but other issues as well. Some help out Mississauga and some help out Caledon.
It may be best for Peel if they did split up. Caledon is too small to go it alone. Potentially moving it to be part of Dufferin would be ideal. Dufferin has only 60,000 residents which makes it one of the smallest upper-tier municipalities in Ontario right now (adding Caledeon would make it 100,000 which is about the size of other non-GTA upper-tier municipalities).
TOareaFan
Superstar
The region of peel was established in, what, 1974? At the time the population of Brampton was +/-90k and Mississauga was +/- 200k....neither was urban, neither was rural....they were mostly suburban and both had remainders of their former farm/rural beings.
The representation/voting over the years has changed/adapted to the various realities/growths.
Math check...population of Caledon now is >60k.
To bring it back to the discussion of HMLRT....still not clear to me what people are suggesting here.......if this decision was to be made at the regional level today (and presumably meaning the region would also take on the costs that any decision created) then it would have met with, at least, the same fate it did last week (possibly even more dire, it may have been killed).........or, in a world where Peel Region is split up into two single tier cities and one town that joins another region - how would that have changed things.
I think what people seem to be saying is that local issues don't matter and that a Mississauga dominated Peel Region should have been able to force this through.....and that is part of the issue that some people were opposed to at Brampton council last week anyway.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Caledon has their little growth area along the 410 north of Brampton that is rapidly adding a lot of population to the municipality, even if its really more of an extension of the Brampton urban area.
TOareaFan
Superstar
That....but most of their growth is in what was formerly known as Bolton
Dan416
Senior Member
Caledon really should be split off from Peel. The question is, do Mississauga and Brampton merge or do they remain as is or do they split completely and devolve the regional responsibilities back to the municipalities. It's hard to imagine Peel Police being split in 2 though.
DonValleyRainbow
Senior Member
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I could see Halton and Peel merging as a single region, like Durham. But ultimately, I think all regional governments should be merged into a metro government for the GTHA. If you want to continue that discussion, maybe check out this thread.