Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I was expecting the worst with the murmurings of BRT over the last while, but this plan actually looks good. Finally, a serious LRT line.
 
Anth said:
I was expecting the worst with the murmurings of BRT over the last while, but this plan actually looks good. Finally, a serious LRT line.
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I went to each stage of the public consultation and it was always made clear that the corridor would be better served by LRT, but that BRT had to be considered in order for a fair evaluation to come to that conclusion.

I'm really impressed with the level of detail put into this Master Plan.

...And entertained by the fact that I (and I think a number of other members) are pictured on one of the pages. :)
 
What's the current ridership on this stretch ? I know it may be hard to calculate - I take it this route as a lot of others that branch off - like Yonge north of Finch ?
 
taal said:
What's the current ridership on this stretch ? I know it may be hard to calculate - I take it this route as a lot of others that branch off - like Yonge north of Finch ?
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Some other routes take Hurontario for small sections but the actual Hurontario routes overlap pretty much the whole way.
 
taal said:
What's the current ridership on this stretch ? I know it may be hard to calculate - I take it this route as a lot of others that branch off - like Yonge north of Finch ?
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Around 27,000 boardings per weekday: 25,000 from MT 19/102/202, and 2,000 from BT.
 
doady said:
Around 27,000 boardings per weekday: 25,000 from MT 19/102/202, and 2,000 from BT.
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So when is the 100,000 estimate expected by ? that's a huge jump, 400% : ). Unless this figure is including other segemants not served here.
Or is that the estimated figure by say (2020?) including all the new ridership they project because of it's speed and what not ?
 
The site is down, I guess too many people downloaded the 139mb version...

taal said:
So when is the 100,000 estimate expected by ? that's a huge jump, 400% : ). Unless this figure is including other segemants not served here.
Or is that the estimated figure by say (2020?) including all the new ridership they project because of it's speed and what not ?
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The ridership estimates are for 2031 and there are two: 102,000 and 110,000, depending on the amount of development.

The current mode split of local transit along Hurontario is only 7-8% of all trips, and along Main around 5%, compared to Toronto overall which is around 22%. I think even the suburban bus corridors in Toronto achieve 20%, or close to it. So if Hurontario matches that and achieves 20% or more, that's 80,000 riders per day right there. Factor in the funneling effect and development and that's an easy 100,000+.
 
Orion VIII said:
I went to each stage of the public consultation and it was always made clear that the corridor would be better served by LRT, but that BRT had to be considered in order for a fair evaluation to come to that conclusion.
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From the Report, "Although, as a benefit/cost ratio, the
BRT shows a relatively higher benefit (Table 11.3.1), this
is purely the result of the higher initial costs for the LRT.
Evaluating only the benefit/cost ratio masks the fact
that, in all benefit measures, the LRT option is preferred
to the BRT alternative."

In other words, BRT is the better option but we like LRT so let's go with that anyway. This is in spite of how the goosed the costs for the BRT.

But I hope those 1500 peak pph will enjoy their shiny new trains!
 
In other words, BRT is the better option but we like LRT so let's go with that anyway.
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For those uninterested in looking at the report, they explicitly state their reasoning immediately afterwards.

It should, however, be noted that the ratio only captures
part of the benefits that are expected to accrue from the
LRT alternative. Other benefits are expected to include:
• The tax uplift implications and the opportunity to intensify
development along Hurontario and Main Street are
dependent on significant transit improvements. It is
therefore possible that a BRT option will not be sufficiently
attractive to result in the proposed intensification and
associated improvements along this corridor. (This has
been the experience in numerous case studies assessed,
with little contradictory evidence.)
• Reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in the corridor
(reduction by approximately 25% over the BRT).
• Quality of ride, LRT has been widely shown to provide a
highly superior travel experience to the rider.
• By virtue of the greater investment in infrastructure,
economic benefits associated with the construction
of the LRT will be significantly higher than those
associated with a BRT project.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, and I can only imagine that if those additional benefits were quantifiable, supported by evidence, and large, then they would have been included in the BCA. No?

Just wondering, if Toronto's DRL were implemented right now as a kind of S-bahn on the existing east and west railway ROWs, would it be feasible? Cost as much as Hurontario? Serve more or fewer passengers? I have no clue but do wonder.
 
k10ery said:
But I hope those 1500 peak pph will enjoy their shiny new trains!
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Ummm there are no peak pph ridership numbers in that report. There are ppph (peak point per hour) ridership numbers, the volume of riders passing through a single point, in each direction for each segment. They project around 2000 ppph for each of the two routes (i.e. the straight through route and the diversion) in the southern segment, which means around 4000 ppph combined. For articulated buses to move 4000 people through a single point in a single direction within one hour, assmuing a maximum capacity of 100 people for each, 40 buses operating under closed door conditions would have to pass through that point in one hour. That means even if the frequency of a BRT service were 90 seconds, and the buses would still be crush loaded. More realistically, the frequency of the buses would have to be around 75 seconds or better to be able to move as many people as is projected for the LRT. That also means instead of just 20 transit vehicle operators for LRT, BT/MT would need to employ over 60 operators for the BRT.
 
k10ery said:
In other words, BRT is the better option but we like LRT so let's go with that anyway. This is in spite of how the goosed the costs for the BRT.
Click to expand...
As stated in the BCA, BRT alone will not be able to handle the anticipated 2021 ridership projections. The CB is not evaluated as a result, though the expected benefit and costs had been calculated.
 
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