Mississauga Hurontario-Main Line 10 LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[TOareaFan]

Consider that not too long after GO RER, electricifation will probably extend to Brampton from Bramalea. So it would be a major connector to a route that had 2-way all-day 15-min service, including an airport station.

What is your definition of "not too long" and since no date has been given for the ReR even getting to Bramalea when does "not too long" start? Also what is this airport station that you talk about? The only talk of an airport station was from the former Minister of Transportation when he was talking about high speed rail....you know the rail service that he specifically said would not stop at any of the stations in Brampton....so if you are going to announce these things can you put a bit of meat around the grist?

When you are defining "not too long" can you fill us in on how the negotiations with CN are going and what size cheque we are writing to get the one part of the corridor that they have shown no interest in selling....perhaps its because its the one part that has real operational value to them.

Also, when Kitchener 2-way service begins someday (long-term plan) we can finally have a practical Mississauga-Kitchener daily rapid transit commute (both directions), not too different from an Oshawa-to-Toronto commute, or Burlington-to-Toronto commute. Hurontario is a key LRT route that has a bias factor that goes beyond the passenger count.

So a train to Brampton to connect to an LRT is an efficient commute from KW to Mississauga? Where in Mississauga are they going...how many are there?

Although there seems to be other better funding for the Hurontario, one has to realize that we're projecting 2025 passenger traffic, not for 2010 passenger traffic. Hurontario is pretty high up there, when you account for the gridding/expansion potential of the GTHA transit network.

This easily increases Hurontario traffic through Brampton, especially if the LRT extends a little bit northwards, too.


We're looking at 2025 projected ridership, not 2010.

The ML studies (which on a fact basis indicate BRT is more than satisfactory capacity) are based on 2031 ridership projections....and highly optimistic ones at that.....and extending it into even lower ridership territory north is just throwing good money after bad.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

What is your definition of "not too long" and since no date has been given for the ReR even getting to Bramalea when does "not too long" start? Also what is this airport station that you talk about? The only talk of an airport station was from the former Minister of Transportation when he was talking about high speed rail....you know the rail service that he specifically said would not stop at any of the stations in Brampton....so if you are going to announce these things can you put a bit of meat around the grist?

When you are defining "not too long" can you fill us in on how the negotiations with CN are going and what size cheque we are writing to get the one part of the corridor that they have shown no interest in selling....perhaps its because its the one part that has real operational value to them.

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/rer-rollout-by-line.pdf

2022/23

So a train to Brampton to connect to an LRT is an efficient commute from KW to Mississauga? Where in Mississauga are they going...how many are there?



The ML studies (which on a fact basis indicate BRT is more than satisfactory capacity) are based on 2031 ridership projections....and highly optimistic ones at that.....and extending it into even lower ridership territory north is just throwing good money after bad.

I semi agree with this. The LRT is about connectivity. The Mississauga Kitchener commutes are not comparable because Burlington and Oshawa are suburbs of Toronto. Kitchener is a separate city.

 

[TOareaFan]

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/rer-rollout-by-line.pdf

2022/23

that is the electrification date....the ReR is under the column 10 year plan...so by 2025 I guess....yes I had seen that a long time ago so thanks for reminding me.....so I wonder what our friend can tell us about those negotiations with CN and how long "not too long after" is.

 

[mdrejhon]

https://swanboatsteve.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/rer-rollout-by-line.pdf
2022/23

For Brampton electrification, I'm talking about after the current 10 year plan.

I know that they replied to a tweet that confirmed they couldn't do Brampton but are working on it (with no date or promises given). It was vague, but an affirmation.

It is consistent with Metrolinx actions in the last 2 years:
-- Metrolinx purchased most of Kitchener corridor -- http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra..._buys_kitchener_track_west_of_georgetown.html
-- Metrolinx purchased the Brampton station -- http://www.building.ca/news/metroli...D&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BD-EN07182014

So they've bought all they could at the moment, while continuing to work "on the rest". Obviously, exact specifics were not mentioned, whether it's just waiting CN out, adding a third track that they're allowed to electricify, and/or negotiating with them. Perhaps other dark horses could be involved (Freight Bypass, HSR, etc) to help push things along. But my impression is that Metrolinx/GO is working on it, slowly, very possibly over a generational timescale. Certainly did not seem in this 10 year timeline, for sure -- but that this file is being worked on.

Other than this, I've been spending the last half hour searching for that tweet reply I saw a few months ago. If/when I find it, I'll amend this post.

Regarding commutes to Kitchener, not necessarily daily -- remember there's a huge number of students that go to the universities there. Eventually they may scale back the GO buses, and we'll have to take the train. With increases in all-day Kitchener service in the next 20-25 years, we might be seeing hourly Kitchener or more often -- and that will be a big draw for Hurontario less than 10-15 years after it starts service. Brampton GO will be a more major hub in 25 years from now, and Hurontario LRT is a very important piece in the GTHA transit puzzle that goes far beyond old 2005 ridership number data.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

For Brampton electrification, I'm talking about after the current 10 year plan.

I know that they replied to a tweet that confirmed they couldn't do Brampton but are working on it (with no date or promises given). It was vague, but an affirmation.

It is consistent with Metrolinx actions in the last 2 years:
-- Metrolinx purchased most of Kitchener corridor -- http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra..._buys_kitchener_track_west_of_georgetown.html
-- Metrolinx purchased the Brampton station -- http://www.building.ca/news/metroli...D&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BD-EN07182014

So they've bought all they could at the moment, while continuing to work "on the rest". Obviously, exact specifics were not mentioned, whether it's just waiting CN out, adding a third track that they're allowed to electricify, and/or negotiating with them. Perhaps other dark horses could be involved (Freight Bypass, HSR, etc) to help push things along. But my impression is that Metrolinx/GO is working on it, slowly, very possibly over a generational timescale. Certainly did not seem in this 10 year timeline, for sure -- but that this file is being worked on.

Other than this, I've been spending the last half hour searching for that tweet reply I saw a few months ago. If/when I find it, I'll amend this post.

Regarding commutes to Kitchener, not necessarily daily -- remember there's a huge number of students that go to the universities there. Eventually they may scale back the GO buses, and we'll have to take the train. With increases in all-day Kitchener service in the next 20-25 years, we might be seeing hourly Kitchener or more often -- and that will be a big draw for Hurontario less than 10-15 years after it starts service. Brampton GO will be a more major hub in 25 years from now, and Hurontario LRT is a very important piece in the GTHA transit puzzle that goes far beyond old 2005 ridership number data.

Can you post the freight bypass picture again? And how much does that cost?

 

[TOareaFan]

I know that they replied to a tweet that confirmed they couldn't do Brampton but are working on it (with no date or promises given). It was vague, but an affirmation.

It is consistent with Metrolinx actions in the last 2 years:
-- Metrolinx purchased most of Kitchener corridor -- http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra..._buys_kitchener_track_west_of_georgetown.html
-- Metrolinx purchased the Brampton station -- http://www.building.ca/news/metroli...D&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=BD-EN07182014

That is precisely the point I have made in the past. ML makes a big deal about buying track sections but the reality is they only get to buy what the railroad wants to sell and in the case of this line the public has given a cash infusion to CN by buying a bunch of stuff they didn't need anymore but have left them with the bit in the middle that they do need. The cherry on the top for CN was the ability to sell a station building of no use to them but that happened to be on the section of track they did not want to sell.

Good luck finding any public mention from the CN side that they are willing to sell this section.....because they are likely not interested in selling this at all.

 

[mdrejhon]

Good luck finding any public mention from the CN side that they are willing to sell this section.....because they are likely not interested in selling this at all.

I didn't say the solution is necessarily "sale". There are many parallel solutions, all of which can be chased simultaneously.

The fact they are working on it, doesn't necessarily mean sale is the only tool...

 

[crs1026]

Why not just look at the HMLRT case studies.....the one that takes current ridership.....considers all of the intensification possibilities into account, takes into account the relative attractiveness of LRT over bus, and takes the modal split of various sections of the route (which are mostly sub 10% for transit) and inflates them all to around 70% and from that projects the ridership of the new LRT......and even at peak gets a number that easily fits into what a full BRT can handle.

What do these studies say about the potential ridership for a Queen Street LRT? There is merit to this argument...but if we follow it for the Main St LRT, we ought to also follow it for Queen....which is the route that the Brampton 'opponents' are favouring. Can't have it both ways - if Brampton only needs BRT (funny, they've done a pretty good job of advancing that premise - Zum is a pretty well run service, even if the branding is a bit hokey) then they can't demand ML "show the love" by building a Queen LRT.

- Paul

 

[nfitz]

Despite being told before there is no such thing as Biway ( )....when Nfitz refers to that he does mean Brampton Transit ...

Well I was thinking Zum actually - or failing to remember the name of. As silly as BiWay is ... it has nothing on Zum - with some rhyming they could market "I ride on Zum on my bum".

 

[TOareaFan]

What do these studies say about the potential ridership for a Queen Street LRT? There is merit to this argument...but if we follow it for the Main St LRT, we ought to also follow it for Queen....which is the route that the Brampton 'opponents' are favouring. Can't have it both ways - if Brampton only needs BRT (funny, they've done a pretty good job of advancing that premise - Zum is a pretty well run service, even if the branding is a bit hokey) then they can't demand ML "show the love" by building a Queen LRT.

- Paul

The study is on HMLRT only....like you, I suspect you would get BRT numbers on Queen as well. My gut instinct tells me that Queen would be closer to LRT (at least until, say, east of Bramalea/Torbram then it likely thins out)....but I will save you some time and suggest you don't waste any looking for me advocating a LRT for Queen Street. I think Brampton would be well served with dedicated lane BRT on both Hurontario and Queen....with the Queen one merging seemlessly into the VIVA system in York Region.

 

[TOareaFan]

Well I was thinking Zum actually - or failing to remember the name of. As silly as BiWay is ... it has nothing on Zum - with some rhyming they could market "I ride on Zum on my bum".

since Zum is pronounced zoom....what part of your anatomy is your boom?

 

[nfitz]

since Zum is pronounced zoom....what part of your anatomy is your boom?

Zum is pronounced Zoom? I wonder how many do ... I've never heard a BT advertisement on radio or TV to give an indication - and it doesn't get any news coverage. Do the announcement s on the bus pronounce it? Any time I've had an option to take it, a MiWay Express or VIVA bus has arrived first.

 

[TOareaFan]

Zum is pronounced Zoom? I wonder how many do ... I've never heard a BT advertisement on radio or TV to give an indication - and it doesn't get any news coverage. Do the announcement s on the bus pronounce it? Any time I've had an option to take it, a MiWay Express or VIVA bus has arrived first.

It is more correctly spelled Züm (but keyboard limitations and laziness typically just sees a "u" in the middle).

Pronounced “zoom,” Brampton Transit’s BRT service was designed from the ground up to provide residents with an efficient, high frequency, comfortable service. Züm works seamlessly in conjunction with all of Brampton Transit’s conventional buses and offers reliable, all-day service with limited stops and a wide range of advanced customer service technologies to ensure riders arrive at their destinations on time and hassle-free.

I have never heard anyone call it anything other than zoom.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

It's pretty dumb - "Züm" should be pronounced with the "u" as a front vowel, sort of like "Zewhm". Brampton Transit basically copied the "metal umlaut" of hair metal bands like Mötley Crüe because they thought it was cool.

 

[nfitz]

It is more correctly spelled Züm (but keyboard limitations and laziness typically just sees a "u" in the middle).

Perhaps it's naïve of me, but I don't think the ü character appears in any English or French words I'm familiar with, and shouldn't be used in branding.