Toronto Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor

[salsa]

Yes please! During the summer I biked a few times from Yonge/Bloor to NYCC and stayed on Yonge the whole time. I felt completely comfortable between Bloor and Yonge Blvd., but past that point biking feels pretty dangerous. Yonge/401 is the worst point, especially after you cross the 401 (right here), where you end up in the middle of the street with cars speeding after exiting the 401. Bike lanes here would be great, though it would require reconfiguration of the entire interchange.

The Yonge Working Group from Cycle Toronto proposed a brilliant solution for the Yonge/401 interchange. They are also working to make all of Yonge into a complete street. Whoever has a strong desire for improved cycling infrastructure should join that group, which is what I plan to do.

[video=youtube;UhPvI1j9XbU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPvI1j9XbU[/video]

 

[Gratty]

The Yonge Working Group from Cycle Toronto proposed a brilliant solution for the Yonge/401 interchange. They are also working to make all of Yonge into a complete street. Whoever has a strong desire for improved cycling infrastructure should join that group, which is what I plan to do.

I love the video and hope these bike trails happen. Traffic is so congested around Y&S I could see some people using these trails to bike to work in the Y&S area.

North of the 401 I believe the plan is to put uni-directional bike lanes on Beecroft and Doris. On Beecroft there will be a southbound bike lane on the west side of the street and on Doris there will be a northbound bike lane on the east side of the street. The way these service roads are built (cut off from most side streets), both these bikes lanes would be mostly uninterrupted between Sheppard & Finch - making them much safer and more likely to be used. With plans to extend Beecroft north of Finch and Doris south of Sheppard, these routes have potential. The other practical advantage of having just single un-idirectional lanes on these roads is that all the current car lanes can be maintained (according to the local councillor they can all be narrowed a bit to accommodate the single bike lane).

As for the criticism of the "7 lanes of traffic" at Y&S, I believe people are missing the "full half of the glass". When Y&S is fully built up, the wide boulevard will help keep the area from being too dark and claustrophobic and will provide a better perspective/visibility of the surrounding architecture. Sure the fewer lanes at Yonge north of Eglinton are nice and provide a small town main street feel, but take a look at Yonge south of Eglinton where the Menkes buildings are - very dark and depressing. When the NE corner of Y&E is built up and as more high rises start fronting Yonge north of Eglinton, the fewer lanes on Yonge will be more detrimental than a positive.

I believe the Y&S intersection has much more potential than the Y&E intersection thanks to these '7 lanes'. Today I stood at the SE corner of Y&S and took in the open square in front of Hullmark and was impressed by the sense of space and the surrounding view. Contrast this with the future Y&E intersection where the opposite was done with the open square at the NW corner getting filled in, and where the road is narrower. I'm betting in 20 yrs I'd rather be standing at the corner of Y&S than Y&E.

 

[WiddleBittyKitty]

... also threatens to send my gorge buoyant.

Hahahahaha! That is the funniest way of saying "makes me want to throw up" I have ever seen!

 

[Memph]

I think it's pretty good, but obviously can be improved. It has the bones for good walkability, with several good sections.

For example this:
http://goo.gl/maps/WNPjf

I like that they kept the pre-war retail with small storefronts.

Yeah those are nice. Not pre-war FYI, unless you're talking about the Vietnam War... They seem to have been built mostly in the 1950s, with maybe a few from the late 40s and early-mid 60s based on historical aerials.

A lot of people assume they're prewar because they resemble architecture from the 1920s but these, along with many similar buildings in other inner suburb type areas like Eglinton West, Avenue Road, East York, SW Scarborough and parts of South Etobicoke were built between 1945 and 1965. Looking at these aerials is pretty interesting actually, for instance you see that Dundas Street in Chinatown had a predominantly residential character. There's also a big chunk of the south side of Danforth Avenue that was auto-oriented back in the 1947 aerial photos and has since been built up.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=7cb4ba2ae8b1e310VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The Yonge Working Group from Cycle Toronto proposed a brilliant solution for the Yonge/401 interchange. They are also working to make all of Yonge into a complete street. Whoever has a strong desire for improved cycling infrastructure should join that group, which is what I plan to do.

[video=youtube;UhPvI1j9XbU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhPvI1j9XbU[/video]

Actually, Cycle Toronto's Yonge Working Group did NOT proposed that brilliant solution for Yonge/401 interchange - they only did the unauthorized video. The idea was proposed years ago by Raymond Jean, a local resident from West Lansing near Yonge-401; who also have a number of interesting traffic solutions for Yonge-401 interchange that are well received by ward 23 councillor John Filion (as per the PostCity articles).
see bottom - http://cycleto.ca/sites/default/files/September_2014.html
see middle - http://westlansing.ca/Development-Updates/Traffic-Updates.aspx

The Yonge Working Group are a group of midtown cycling advocates focus on making Yonge Street a complete street with bike lanes. As we've seen some here feels Yonge Street in NYCC is not pedestrian friendly because it's too wide with too many lanes for cars. But the area already has the worst traffic gridlock in GTA due to all the high density urban development along Yonge corridor. The only way bike lanes can fit onto Yonge Street in NYCC is by taking out lanes of traffic or lane narrowing (which would also decrease traffic capacity) or narrowing the boulevard pedestrian sidewalks. Pick your poison. If traffic lanes are reduced or narrowed or boulevard pedestrian sidewalks are narrowed then the area can't support any more high density development (many would argue, the area roads and sidewalks can't support the development it has now!) and the city and NIMBY-types would have more leverage to slow down the developments that most of us would like to see.

The current Yonge streetscape in NYCC with wide pedestrian boulevard sidewalks and tree lined centre median was decided 20 years ago with consultation with area community groups. Bike lanes on Yonge Street were overwhelmingly rejected.

The city's does not want bike lanes on Yonge Street. The city is in the process of building bike lanes on side streets parallel to Yonge Street - northbound Doris and southbound Beecroft; the same process that has been done in midtown and downtown Toronto.

Cycle Toronto does have a North York Cycling & Pedestrian Committee which focuses on real cycling issues in North York.

I love the video and hope these bike trails happen. Traffic is so congested around Y&S I could see some people using these trails to bike to work in the Y&S area.

North of the 401 I believe the plan is to put uni-directional bike lanes on Beecroft and Doris. On Beecroft there will be a southbound bike lane on the west side of the street and on Doris there will be a northbound bike lane on the east side of the street. The way these service roads are built (cut off from most side streets), both these bikes lanes would be mostly uninterrupted between Sheppard & Finch - making them much safer and more likely to be used. With plans to extend Beecroft north of Finch and Doris south of Sheppard, these routes have potential. The other practical advantage of having just single un-idirectional lanes on these roads is that all the current car lanes can be maintained (according to the local councillor they can all be narrowed a bit to accommodate the single bike lane).

Narrowing traffic lanes on Doris and Beecroft would decrease traffic capacity and speed - which would be desirable since too many cars speed on these Doris and Beecroft - very popular location for police speed-traps.

That solution would benefit cyclist from outside the area going from one end to the other. Local cyclist wouldn't benefit much from this solution; in fact this solution would be dangerous for local cyclists. Most designation is on Yonge Street itself - to get to Yonge Street via a east-west road from northbound Doris or southbound Beecroft would require the cyclist to do a left turn across 4 lanes of traffic! Ditto when cyclists going from Yonge via east-west connector road back to northbound Doris or southbound Beecroft. This solution would require more signalized intersections along Doris and Beecroft to help cyclists at left turns.

The same Raymond Jean that came up with the Yonge Street - Highway 401 - DonValleyWest Bypass multi-use trail solution have recently convinced the city (in cooperation with Cycle Toronto North York Cycling & Pedestrian Committee) to re-examine this solution in favour of a southbound Doris and northbound Beecroft bike lane route. This solution would benefit the locals more since southbound Doris (or northbound Beecroft) to likely designations on Yonge via east-west connector roads would only require a simple right turn that's conflict free. Ditto when cyclists going from Yonge via east-west connector road back to southbound Doris or northbound Beecroft. This solution would not require more signalized intersections along Doris and Beecroft - instead some of that money could be spent painting the bike lanes green at corners with vehicles-cyclist conflict points to better warn both drivers and cyclists. This solution benefit local cyclists more since 2/3 of Ward 23 Willowdale residents live in high density condos mainly between Doris and Beecroft - and the bike lanes will be on their side of Doris and Beecroft - they won't have to cross Doris or Beecroft to use the bike lanes!

With southbound Doris and northbound Beecroft bike lanes solution, if cycling ridership justifies it - northbound Doris and southbound Beecroft protected bike lanes can be added on the grassy boulevard that is usually present between the pedestrian sidewalk and road curb along the outer part of the service ring roads. Then you'll get both northbound and southbound bike lanes on both Doris and Beecroft where you expect bike lanes to be.

Regardless of whichever solution the city finally decides on, new bike lanes on Doris and Beecroft should be ready by next summer.

 

[LNahid2000]

The Yonge Working Group are a group of midtown cycling advocates focus on making Yonge Street a complete street with bike lanes. As we've seen some here feels Yonge Street in NYCC is not pedestrian friendly because it's too wide with too many lanes for cars. But the area already has the worst traffic gridlock in GTA due to all the high density urban development along Yonge corridor.

The area has the worst traffic gridlock in the GTA because everyone is getting on and off the 401 at Yonge. If you go 1km north or 1km south of the 401 on Yonge (where most of the development is), the traffic really isn't that bad and usually flies at 70km/h.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The area has the worst traffic gridlock in the GTA because everyone is getting on and off the 401 at Yonge. If you go 1km north or 1km south of the 401 on Yonge (where most of the development is), the traffic really isn't that bad and usually flies at 70km/h.

LNahid2000, you obviously do NOT live in the area.

You can't blame traffic congestion on Highway 401. Highway 401 was reconfigured to express-collector system in the mid-60s,... basically 50 years ago. NYCC didn't have traffic gridlock back then,... in fact NYCC was basically all bungalows on huge lots and store plaza back then.

Take a look around NYCC. Lots of new high density condominium towers since then, especially in the last 20 years. The standard condo tower in NYCC is 100m high allowing for around 30 storeys and thus around 300-400 units which means around 300-400 additional cars per condo tower! A standard residential east-west street full of single residential houses from Yonge Street to Bayview would have about 300-400 cars. Basically, all the people and cars on that 2km residential street have been stacked vertically into a single condo tower. Multiply that by the 60 or so new condo towers that have popped up in NYCC since amalgamation in 1998 and you basically have added the equivalent of 60 of these 2km long single residential streets (in terms of the number of people and cars) in NYCC along the Yonge corridor between Doris & Beecroft from highway 401 to Finch Hydro corridor. That's why the area is gridlocked - and traffic congestion overflows to Bayview&Sheppard/401 making that and Yonge&Sheppard/401 the two worst traffic congestion area in GTA.

BTW, that former 100m height limit in NYCC is out the window now due to GibsonSquare OMB, HullmarkCentre is about 165m and EmeraldPark around 142m

Now imagine if they were to jam in 60 new condo towers into your neighbourhood,.... that's about 50,000 new people. Canada's Wonderland can hold 40,000 people,... imagine Canada's Wonderland's parking lot all full of cars,... and add 25% more cars,.... welcome to NYCC

 

[LNahid2000]

LNahid2000, you obviously do NOT live in the area.

You can't blame traffic congestion on Highway 401. Highway 401 was reconfigured to express-collector system in the mid-60s,... basically 50 years ago. NYCC didn't have traffic gridlock back then,... in fact NYCC was basically all bungalows on huge lots and store plaza back then.

Take a look around NYCC. Lots of new high density condominium towers since then, especially in the last 20 years. The standard condo tower in NYCC is 100m high allowing for around 30 storeys and thus around 300-400 units which means around 300-400 additional cars per condo tower! A standard residential east-west street full of single residential houses from Yonge Street to Bayview would have about 300-400 cars. Basically, all the people and cars on that 2km residential street have been stacked vertically into a single condo tower. Multiply that by the 60 or so new condo towers that have popped up in NYCC since amalgamation in 1998 and you basically have added the equivalent of 60 of these 2km long single residential streets (in terms of the number of people and cars) in NYCC along the Yonge corridor between Doris & Beecroft from highway 401 to Finch Hydro corridor. That's why the area is gridlocked - and traffic congestion overflows to Bayview&Sheppard/401 making that and Yonge&Sheppard/401 the two worst traffic congestion area in GTA.

BTW, that former 100m height limit in NYCC is out the window now due to GibsonSquare OMB, HullmarkCentre is about 165m and EmeraldPark around 142m

Now imagine if they were to jam in 60 new condo towers into your neighbourhood,.... that's about 50,000 new people. Canada's Wonderland can hold 40,000 people,... imagine Canada's Wonderland's parking lot all full of cars,... and add 25% more cars,.... welcome to NYCC

I don't live in the area, but I do work in the area and often take the 97 Yonge bus during rush hour. I find that around Yonge/Empress, traffic is always moving VERY quickly.

Your entire post makes the assumption that no one living in those condos in NYCC takes the subway, which whisks them downtown in 25 minutes.

 

[alps]

Now imagine if they were to jam in 60 new condo towers into your neighbourhood,.... that's about 50,000 new people. Canada's Wonderland can hold 40,000 people,... imagine Canada's Wonderland's parking lot all full of cars,... and add 25% more cars,.... welcome to NYCC

Nonsense comparison.

I live in Hong Kong, and by your logic Hong Kong must have worse traffic congestion than Toronto by virtue of population alone. Of course it doesn't, due to population density coupled with high-capacity public transit.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Nonsense comparison.

I live in Hong Kong, and by your logic Hong Kong must have worse traffic congestion than Toronto by virtue of population alone. Of course it doesn't, due to population density coupled with high-capacity public transit.

Does Toronto have great public transit???? Seriously, even Paul Bedford (former Toronto city chief planner, Metrolinx director and current University of Toronto urban planning professor) says "Toronto has a great transit system,... for 1 million people,... problem is there's 6 million people!" (6 million in GTA)

What population of HongKong actually drive? Everything in HongKong is stacked vertically on top of each other,... even buses and streetcars are all double decker.

Oh, I see you're from Halifax,.... let me introduce you to Toronto. The entire area of Hong Kong (including all outlining areas) can fit into Scarborough! Scarborough is one of Toronto's former 6 boroughs that have all been amalgamated to make up the new Toronto! In the most densest part of Hong Kong, 5 million people are jammed into an area that's the size of downtown Toronto,... which is mostly within walking distance of anywhere they need to go.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I don't live in the area, but I do work in the area and often take the 97 Yonge bus during rush hour. I find that around Yonge/Empress, traffic is always moving VERY quickly.

Your entire post makes the assumption that no one living in those condos in NYCC takes the subway, which whisks them downtown in 25 minutes.

No. I'm not assuming everyone drives! That Canada's Wonderland parking lot comparison is actually an under-estimate since most cars have 1.5 people inside but cars going to Wonderland are more likely to be full since it's family oriented. Probably better to imagine TWO Canada's Wonderland parking lots to compare the number of cars due to the new condos in NYCC.

Let's look at some hard numbers: the 60 new condo towers built in NYCC since amalgamation in 1998 have about 50,000 new residents, the vast majority are young working age folks with jobs. 30% of people in Toronto are regular transit users, in NYCC let's say 40% since it's on subway line; thus about 60% drive cars in NYCC (60% of 50,000 = 30,000). With an average of 1.5 people per car that means NYCC has to deal with 20,000 additional cars since 1998 amalgamation. What does 20,000 cars look like??? Canada's Wonderland's parking lot can only hold 10,300 cars,... so double that!
https://www.canadaswonderland.com/media-center/fun-facts

City Planning did assume everyone who moved to these condos on the subway line in NYCC would take the TTC; but that assumption have been proven wrong! City Planning also assume everyone who moves into NYCC condos would be single folks who don't have kids,... again proven wrong as we see most condo kids get bused out for school since the local schools don't have room for them.

In Toronto, about 30% of people take transit regularly. In NYCC that number is likely slightly higher since its on the Yonge Subway line. But there's many parts of Toronto on the subway line, one of the main reason people choose NYCC is because it's on the Yonge Subway line AND close to Highway 401. Since not everyone works downtown on the subway line, there is a significant amount of NYCC folks who will drive especially when they work in areas that are not transit accessible like 905.

NYCC is along Yonge corridor north of Highway 401. Anyone going south has to go south on Yonge to cross Highway 401 which acts like a huge barrier wall dividing the city. Anyone going any significant distance east or west would go south on Yonge to access Highway 401. Thus, you get a funnel effect where local NYCC traffic is funneled to the Yonge-401 interchange - result in traffic gridlock!

TTC Yonge subway line isn't better way,.... Yonge subway line is operating at full capacity. For that 25 minute southbound subway ride you referred to,.. During AM rush hour, the southbound Yonge train is basically full once it leaves Sheppard-Yonge subway station,.... and everyone is packed like sardine by the time it gets to Eglinton,... not even halfway downtown yet. Stand at Eglinton station southbound platform and see how many packed southbound trains go by before you can squeeze on. BTW, now there's the risk that ATC for Yonge line won't be completed before Eglinton Crosstown,.... so imagine a even busier Eglinton-Yonge interchange station with no ATC on Yonge line,....


LNahid2000, huh? You live at Yonge&Bloor but you take the 97 Yonge bus to Yonge and Empress during rush hour??? Why not take the Yonge Subway which would be much faster? That doesn't make sense especially since most 97 Yonge bus routes don't go north of YorkMills. The 97 Yonge bus is once every 15 minutes between Davisville and YorkMills; but outside of midtown it's once every 30 minutes - from your stops of Yonge&Bloor to Yonge&Empress it's every 30 minutes, if you miss the bus - you'll be waiting 30 mintues for the next bus - in 30 mintutes you can get from Yonge&Bloor to Yonge&Empress (NorthYorkCenter station).
http://www.ttc.ca/Routes/97/Northbound.jsp

BTW, whereas most TTC bus routes suffers from overcrowding due to customer demand for bus service being much higher than what the TTC can supply; the 97 Yonge bus is the complete opposite. The Yonge subway runs directly under the 97 Yonge bus route which should have been eliminated but was kept for political reasons only since too many people complained they would have to walk too far to their local subway station. Whenever you see the 97 Yonge bus, count the number of passengers you see onboard! In NYCC, there's rarely more than a handful of passengers on the 97 Yonge bus,... usually just one or two - even during rush hour!

 

[Edward Skira]

You can't blame traffic congestion on Highway 401. Highway 401 was reconfigured to express-collector system in the mid-60s,... basically 50 years ago. NYCC didn't have traffic gridlock back then,... in fact NYCC was basically all bungalows on huge lots and store plaza back then.

Let's not discount all the people that get off at Yonge from the 401 and head north of Steeles. 50 years ago most of the area north of Steeles was still farmland.

 

[LNahid2000]

LNahid2000, huh? You live at Yonge&Bloor but you take the 97 Yonge bus to Yonge and Empress during rush hour??? Why not take the Yonge Subway which would be much faster? That doesn't make sense especially since most 97 Yonge bus routes don't go north of YorkMills. The 97 Yonge bus is once every 15 minutes between Davisville and YorkMills; but outside of midtown it's once every 30 minutes - from your stops of Yonge&Bloor to Yonge&Empress it's every 30 minutes, if you miss the bus - you'll be waiting 30 mintues for the next bus - in 30 mintutes you can get from Yonge&Bloor to Yonge&Empress (NorthYorkCenter station).
http://www.ttc.ca/Routes/97/Northbound.jsp

Yep, I take the 97 Yonge southbound from Ellersie to Bloor about twice a week. I check NextBus when I’m leaving work and if it’s coming within 5 minutes, I’ll take the bus because:

1) I’m not always in a hurry to get home and it only takes 15 minutes longer
2) I want to be able to surf the internet on my way home
3) Getting to see some sunlight at the end of the day improves my mood, rather than being underground for 25 minutes and having it be dark when I get home
4) No one takes the 97 Yonge, and I’d often rather be on an empty bus than the crowded subway

Makes sense now?

 

[salsa]

Let's look at some hard numbers: the 60 new condo towers built in NYCC since amalgamation in 1998 have about 50,000 new residents, the vast majority are young working age folks with jobs. 30% of people in Toronto are regular transit users, in NYCC let's say 40% since it's on subway line; thus about 60% drive cars in NYCC (60% of 50,000 = 30,000). With an average of 1.5 people per car that means NYCC has to deal with 20,000 additional cars since 1998 amalgamation.

The actual numbers:

Source: Toronto Public Health Report

 

[interchange42]

The share for transit would be higher amongst those living right on the line. Those numbers are for the whole ward.

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