Toronto Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor

[toaster29]

I've backed up my 80% of HullmarkCentre office-condo are empty statement many times here,...
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-kirkor-architects.668/page-105#post-1064647

Of course, if a certain someone would have taken up my bet then I would have shown my data too,..... Anyways, if you still doubt my 80% data,... best opportunity is to go to the Planner in Public Space event at HullmarkCentre,.... and ask city planner for their data,..... they've been monitoring the situation,... and their data are accurate since Tridel only delivers an office-condo shell (cement walls, cement floors, electrical box, water supply-drainage for each unit) thus, buyer still needed city building permit to proceed with further renovations to make the office-condo space habitable. City Planning keeps track of HullmarkCentre office-condo vacancy based on the number of city building permits granted,.... and whenever I discuss my 80% number with City Planning and other city staff, they never conflict it because it's consistent with their numbers.

Of course it matters,... city wants employment areas,... especially at subway interchanges and at prime corner lots of large arterial roads like Yonge & Sheppard,... empty office space don't provide any employment!

This North York Secondary Plan area has seen over 60 new residential condo towers since amalgamation in 1998 and only 1 new office tower,.... and now these a few of these measly token office-condo. North York Centre is now a vertical sleeping community. The vast majority of North York Centre residents do not work locally,.... many take the subway downtown which jam up the over-capacity Yonge line,... those who can't take transit to work - drive which creates some of the worst traffic congestion in North America. This isn't how you build a healthy urbanized area,... many posters here, just raa-raa-cheer-cheer for any tall tower,... but an area needs the proper mix between residential, office and retail usage,...

What doesn't matter is whether a development project uses private or public funds,.... In this case, Tridel HullmarkCentre is private funded project,... but they still needed City approval to proceed,.... city fought hard just to get the limited office space in Tridel HullmarkCentre: 3 storey in 5 storey podium and 12 storey in 45 storey north tower,... and nothing in 33 storey south tower. But developer just turn around and convert all the office space into more sellable small office-condo units,... sold the vast majority of the office-condo units to oversea investors,... who have absolutely no intentions of opening their own offices here or even renting or leasing them out. Thus, 80% of the office-condo space at HullmarkCentre still remains empty!

Anyone can guess at occupancy levels by looking at window and lights on in a building. Is it a factual representation of actual leased/used spaces, no. When presenting a figure, the onus is on you to provide a source, not on others to go do research to confirm your guess. Can you imagine writing a graduate thesis using that kind of argument? Laughable.

 

[taal]

You can get a rough idea here:
http://www.altusinsite.com/index.ph...name=Hullmark&searchbyabldgbtn=Find+Buildings

For office condos it's not always clear but you can def see there is some space available.

 

[steveve]

From a distance:
I think 4800 Yonge (if built close enough to what is proposed) will provide some great contrast to Hullmark design-wise.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Anyone can guess at occupancy levels by looking at window and lights on in a building. Is it a factual representation of actual leased/used spaces, no. When presenting a figure, the onus is on you to provide a source, not on others to go do research to confirm your guess. Can you imagine writing a graduate thesis using that kind of argument? Laughable.

Toaster29,... actually, yes,.... my guesstimate of building occupancy based on late afternoon lighting during winter really is an accurate "factual representation of actual leased/used space"! Now, I'll defend my "thesis",.... and we'll see exactly how accurate my statement that "80% of HullmarkCentre office-condos are empty" really is,..... Furthermore, going through this thread, the only posters who have issues with my numbers are those that aren't familiar with the area,... posters who live or work at Yonge & Sheppard area aren't raising issues with my numbers!

As discussed previously, I've been able to confirm my 80% vacancy number for the office-condos at Tridel's HullmarkCentre by a number of ways including guesstimate of office lights in late afternoon during winter, office-condo units count VS office directory and office door name-plates (yes, I've walked through each and every floor),.... my data has been confirmed with CityPlanning and Del-realty (Tridel's real-estate/property management group) as well,... and if they don't have issues with my numbers,... then why would you?

Unlike residential condo units, office-condo units are delivered unfinished,... bare cement floors, cement ceiling with exposed pipings, cement pillars, cement or drywall walls, bare water pipes, electical outlets, etc,.... image below is a photo of the office-condo units shell as delivered to buyer at EmeraldPark. As you can see, the office-condo buyer/renter will still need to find designer and contractors to finish off the interior, get approval by HullmarkCentre building management, then get building permits from city and after final inspection get occupancy permits from city. CityPlanning use these building permits and occupancy permits to determine which office-condo units are now occupied.

Fine,... since a certain unnamed poster here haven't taken the bait in the last 9 months or so,.... here's some more proof! Via an inventory of all office-condos unit in both NorthTower and Podium VS their office directory list of occupied office-condo units,.... and simple calculation,....

HullmarkCentre office-condos are divided into two section: 3 floors of office-condos in Podium and 12 floors of office-condos in NorthTower.

Here are the floor plans for the office-condos in Podium level 3-5, which opened in November 2013:

Level 3 has 12 office-condo units
Level 4 has 12 office-condo units
Level 5 has 13 office-condo units
Note: each floor could have had 13 office-condo units but units were combined once on level 3 & 4

The Podium has a total of 37 office-condo units opened in November 2013, of which 10 office-condo units were occupied at the beginning of this year (image dated January 5, 2016 as per newspaper Note: Since my statement that "80% of HullmarkCentre office-condos are empty originated in late 2015 I'll use data from that time period),... that's 27% occupancy VS 73% vacancy for the Podium office-condo units

To be continue,....

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Continue,.....

Here are the floor plans for the office-condos in NorthTower level 1-12, which opened in November 2014:

Floor 1 has 0 office-condo units - its just office lobby, mailroom, retail, etc,...
Floor 2 has 10 office-condo units
Floor 3 has 17 office-condo units
Floor 4 has 16 office-condo units
Floor 5 has 16 office-condo units
Floor 6 has 16 office-condo units
Floor 7 has 18 office-condo units
Floor 8 has 15 office-condo units
Floor 9 has 16 office-condo units
Floor 10 has 16 office-condo units
Floor 11 has 14 office-condo units
Floor 12 has 18 office-condo units
Note: 2nd floor could have had 12 office-condo units, Floor 3-5 could have 20 office-condo units, Floor 6-12 could have 18 office-condo units but due to combining units the results are as shown above.

The NorthTower has a total of 172 office-condo units opened in November 2014, of which 37 office-condo units were occupied (not including concierge) at the beginning of this year (image dated January 5, 2016 as per newspaper Note: Since my statement that "80% of HullmarkCentre office-condos are empty originated in late 2015 I'll use data from that time period),... that's 21.5% occupancy VS 78.5% vacancy for the NorthTower office-condo units.


In total,..... HullmarkCentre has a total of (37+172=) 209 office-condo unit (Podium and NorthTower), of which (10+37=) 47 office-condo units were occupied at the beginning of this year,... that's 22.5% occupancy VS 77.5% vacancy for all HullmarkCentre office-condo units,... yeah, that's very close to my 80% vacancy number! Thus, my statement that "80% of HullmarkCentre office-condos are empty" was fairly accurate,.... as I've always said, I can always back up whatever I post!


These data were taken at the beginning of this year,.... when Podium office-condo were already open for just over 2 years, since then the Podium office-condo data has basically flat-lined,... still about 70% empty now. At the beginning of this year, NorthTower office condo opened just over a year,... and in the Spring and Summer, HullmarkCentre building management has been agressively pushing for office occupancy with events, signage, etc,... a few more office-condos opened,... but I would expect it to eventually flatline at around 70% empty,....

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

You can get a rough idea here:
http://www.altusinsite.com/index.ph...name=Hullmark&searchbyabldgbtn=Find+Buildings

For office condos it's not always clear but you can def see there is some space available.

Taal,... as discussed previously, that's not a rough idea and definitely no where close to how many office-condo units at HullmarkCentre are actually empty.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-kirkor-architects.668/page-105#post-1064659

That site only shows 11 office-condo units available for rent/lease or sale,.... but as my previous post shows out of the 209 office-condo units at HullmarkCentre, there are about 150 office-condo units still sitting empty!,... almost 2-3 years after they opened. So what's really going on here,....

Taal, You're still working on the logical assumption that owner of the office-condo units will either occupy them or rent/lease them out,... thus, if it's empty they'll actively seek out tenants for their office-condo. But that's a faulty assumption,... when it comes to office-condos. Why? Because it's part of a scam,.... @ponyboy came closest here to figuring part of the "scam",...
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-kirkor-architects.668/page-105#post-1064709

A large proportion of the office-condo units at HullmarkCentre were sold to what CityPlanning calls "Overseas Investors",... PonyBoy guessed they were "Asian investors",... I'm not going to name their country or nationality,... but like all other places there are criminal activities and corruption there,.... but in that country, if the guilty party gets caught, the government will take away as much of the proceeds of crime and family wealth as possible,.... thus, it's in the best interest of those criminals and corrupt people to get as much of their proceeds of criminal activities and illegal wealth out of that country, and whatever wealth they already have out of that country should be kept out,... out of the reach of their home government if they ever get caught,... and into a very safe politically-stable highly-developed country, like Canada!

But why office-condos real-estate as oppose to other investments??,.... people from the country/nationality in question traditionally value holding real-estate. So then why office-condo as oppose to residential-condos? Both of them, you could just park your money in them and someone else does the maintenance et all (the door to your unit looks like all the others and hardly anyone will ever know it's empty),.... while you're halfway around the world! Office-condos are more attractive because they're more anonymous and even though the property tax is slightly higher,... the maintenance fee is a lot lower,... office-condos are not paying maintenance fees for pool, spa, sauna, gym, party rooms, virtual rooms, pool room, movie theatres, libraries, etc,... like residential condo does,..... it's just basic ground maintenance, HullmarkCentre NorthTower has concierge, Podium doesn't. Thus, instead of buying residential condo units that they'll never use or rent out,... they go after Office-condo units,.... cheaper maintenance fees!

As per the agreement with the city, Tridel HullmarkCentre was supposed to build X-amount of office space,.... into 12 storey of NorthTower and 3 storey in podium,.... but the city doesn't specify how that X-amount of office space should be partitioned,.... since Tridel HullmarkCentre can't sell the large office space format due to poor market conditions, they divided up all the office space into tiny office-condo format,.... and the vast majority of office-condo units got sold to "Overseas Investors" from Asia (many brought multiple office-condo units),.... they never intend to open up an office here or even rent/lease out their space,.... they use it as a form of money laundering, it legitimize their illegal wealth,.... and keep it out of the hands of their home government if they ever get caught,....

So why don't they just rent/lease out their office-condo units? They already have too much money,... generating more income isn't an issue, they just want to preserve their wealth,... legitimate or otherwise,... and keep it out of reach of their home government if they get caught! If they rent/lease out their office-condo or even residential-condo units,.... and they get a problematic tenant, and eventually goes to court, they don't want to draw attention to themselves,.... and then people in their home country wondering how this person get so much money to buy office-condo in Canada? They just want to preserve their wealth,.... this is just an insurance policy to protect a portion of their wealth if they get caught,.... thus, they're not really interested in renting/leasing out their office-condo units,... so their office-condo units remain empty.

Empty office space doesn't create the local employment City Planning was depending on here,....

Scam: Developer required by CityPlanning to provide X-amount of office space to satisfy employment area criteria. Developer builds X-amount of office space but partition them all off as tiny office-condo units that are more easily sold off primarily to "Overseas Investors". These "Overseas Investors" use the office-condo units as tool for money laundering and preservation of their wealth from corruption and criminal activities,... they have no interest in opening up their own offices or even renting/leasing out the office-condo units,... their goal isn't more income generation but rather wealth preservation,... thus, they're content to let their office-condo units sit empty. Empty office spaces don't create the local employment area CityPlanning and the locals are depending on,... it's the city and local communities that got scammed,.. scammed out of 80% of the promised employment area for good professional office jobs at these prime locations.

With the vast majority of HullmarkCentre office-condo empty,.... HullmarkCentre doesn't function as the "mixed-use development" it was designed and built as. Due to the lack of professional office employments,... the opportunity for anyone to actually "live, work, shop and play" all within HullmarkCentre is very rare,...

I see the same thing happening at the 3rd floor EmeraldPark office-condo units,.... their vacancy rate is a bit lower than HullmarkCentre only because EmeraldPark building management isn't as fussy as to the quality of their office tenants,.... and hence they get a lot of "massage" offices that wouldn't be allowed to open in HullmarkCentre.

Anywhere CityPlanning insists on office-space,... that can't be sold off in large format will get partitioned into small office-condo units format,.... and guess who buys them? We're going see the same thing happen at the office-condo units for 4050 Yonge,... and anywhere else office-condos are built,..... How does CityPlanning solve this issue,... does CityPlanning need to specify minimum partition/categories for office space as residential condos units are divided into bachelor (<45m2 or over), 1-bedroom, 2-bedroom, 3+bedroom, etc,... or simply insist on more office space,... which put larger projects at greater risk,...

 

[Edward Skira]

Yesterday.

 

[innsertnamehere]

This really is a good looking project. I hope that Menkes project ends up looking as good.

 

[steveve]

Today:

 

[Edward Skira]

Nothing new beyond me liking how it looks from Sheppard Station.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Since it hasn't been mentioned on this thread,....

The Building Industry & Land Development Association awarded Tridel HullmarkCentre their 2016 BILD award for "Best New Community – Built",... "The only award category that recognizes a finished development, it honours the best “complete community” that embodies provincial smart growth principles."
"Celebrating excellence at annual BILD Awards": http://bildblogs.ca/celebrating-excellence-at-annual-bild-awards/
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2016/05/winners-announced-36th-annual-bild-awards
https://mbtw.com/project/hullmark-centre/

Oh,... and Tridel was also named BILD's "Home Builder of the Year" and "GREEN Builder of the Year",.... note: "maybe" I capitalized GREEN since the green EmeraldPark building have never and will never win any awards!
https://www.tridel.com/about-tridel/our-purpose-promise/awards/

These Tridel HullmarkCentre awards and accolades show, a good developer can actually build high quality award winning mixed-use development with good public realm,... in North York Centre!!! And their buyers will happily pay for it!

Here's a recent list of Tridel's award,... from BILD, JD Powers, Ernest Assaly Award, Tarion, GREEN Toronto, Ontario Home Builders’ Association, Greater Toronto Home Builders’ Association, EnerQuality Awards
https://www.tridel.com/about-tridel/our-purpose-promise/awards/

Awards
2017 OHBA Awards of Distinction
2017 Ontario Home Builder of the Year
2017 BILD Awards
Home Builder of the Year, Mid/High Rise. Tridel was once again honoured to receive the Home Builder of the Year (Mid/High Rise) award, recognizing our leadership in the industry and our dedication to innovation, quality and customer care, as determined by industry peers and direct customer feedback.
Green Builder of the Year. This is the 8th time Tridel has been awarded this Pinnacle Award. As a leader in the condominium industry Tridel takes its responsibility for innovation and our commitment to environmental stewardship seriously.
Project of the Year – Aquabella at Bayside.
People’s Choice Award – Aquabella at Bayside.
Best Customer Care – Tridel is honoured to received this award for the second year in a row, since its inception last year.
Best Design Team
Best Luxury Suite Design – Aquabella at Bayside, Suite T3BB
Best Brochure: Aquabella at Bayside
Best Direct Mail – Aquabella at Bayside
Best Sales Office, Large – Scala at 91 Sheppard Ave. E.

2016 BILD Awards
Home Builder of the Year, Mid/High Rise.
Green Builder of the Year. Tridel was once again recognized for our industry leadership in sustainable building practices with the Green Builder of the Year award for the 7th time!
Best Salesperson or Team, Mid/High-Rise: Chilli Yung & Juliana Tsui – Scala. The 6th consecutive year the Tridel Sales team has received this award!
Best Customer Care. Tridel proudly received the first ever Best Customer Care BILD Award, recognizing our dedication to delivering innovative and quality care and support to our customers.
Best New Community (Built) – Hullmark Centre
Best Direct Mail – SQ2
Best Signage – Bowery Project signage at SQ2

2016 OHBA Awards of Distinction
2016 Ontario Home Builder of the Year
Most Outstanding High or Mid-Rise Condo Suite (4+ storeys up to 800 sq.ft.) – Scala L5T
Best Video High or Mid-Rise Project (4+ storeys)

2016 EnerQuality Awards – Building Innovation – Mid and High Rise

2015 BILD Awards
Green High-rise Builder of the Year by BILD. Tridel was once again recognized for their innovation and leadership in building sustainable communities, providing our homeowners with energy-efficient and healthy living environments that help to preserve our planet for future generations.
P2G (Places to Grow) High-rise Community of the Year for Aquavista at Bayside, recognizing our commitment to the province’s vision of thoughtful planning for intensification and development growth to revitalize and transform our city.
Best Suite Design 750 ‐1,500 square feet for Aquavista at Bayside, “S7”
Best Model Suite for 300 Front Street West ‐Stella Salvador‐Principal Interior Designer and the Tridel Internal Interior Design Team
Best Sales Team – Winnie Chan and Winson Chan for Alter

2014 BILD Awards
Best Building Design High-Rise – Aqualina at Bayside
Best Sales Team High-Rise – May Tsui & Tara Stone for Aqualina at Bayside

2013 Ontario High-Rise Builder of the Year awarded by Tarion
2013 BILD Awards
Home Builder of the Year: Tridel Wins BILD’s Home Builder of the Year, recognizing our industry leadership in Customer Care and our commitment to providing the highest level of satisfaction to our homeowners.
Best Social Media Campaign High-Rise – Ten York
Best Sales Team High-Rise – Candyce Charles and Chilli Yung for Ten York
Best Sales Manager High-Rise – Winson Chan
2013 OHBA Best New Home Sales Office (under 1,500 sq ft) – 101 Erskine

2012 BILD Awards
Green Builder of the Year High-rise for the fifth time. Tridel is committed to building innovative and sustainable condominiums.
Best Sales Team High-Rise – Nasim Radhkoshnoud and Tiffani Tsoi for Alto at Atria, North York’s best-selling condominium community 2011.
Best Model Suite Reve EcoSuite
Best Social Media Campaign for Reve

2011 BILD Awards
Green Builder of the Year High-Rise.
Lifetime Achievement Award – Elvio, Angelo and Leo DelZotto.
Best Website High-Rise – Tridel.com
Best Sales Managers High-Rise – Winnie Chan and Winson Chan for One Old Mill

2010 Ontario High-Rise Builder of the Year by Tarion
An exceptional achievement in after-sales service, the Tarion Award of Excellence acknowledges Tridel’s ongoing commitment to your satisfaction long after you have taken possession of your new home.
2010 BILD Green Builder of the Year High-Rise
As Canada’s largest builder of sustainable communities, Tridel builds condominiums which provide you with energy-efficient and healthy living environments that help preserve our planet for future generations.
2010 OHBA Project of the Year High-Rise for REVE

2009 J.D. Power and Associates
Four consecutive years of offering the “Highest in Customer Satisfaction” demonstrates our tradition of offering the most responsive and caring customer service experience.
2009 Home Builder of the Year by the Ontario Home Builders’ Association
Recognition by our peers, the voice of the residential building industry in Ontario, a Tridel Built for Life® community means your assurance of quality, value and service.

2008 Ontario High-Rise Builder of the Year presented by TARION

2008 BILD Awards
2008 Green Builder of the Year High-Rise Award. For the second consecutive year, Tridel is a proud recipient of the High-Rise Green Builder of the Year Award.
Best Community Development High-Rise – Metrogate

2008 OHBA Awards
Project of the Year, High-Rise for Huntington.
Most Outstanding High-Rise Building for Parc Nuvo.

2007 Ontario High-Rise Builder of the Year presented by TARION
2007 GTHBA Green Builder of the Year High-Rise.
Tridel was awarded this inaugural award, recognizing our commitment to building sustainable communities.
2007 OHBA Most Outstanding High-Rise Building and High-rise Project Of The Year
High-Rise Project of the Year for The Republic
Most Outstanding High-Rise Building for The Republic

2006 Green Toronto Award for Energy Conservation
Tridel Wins the 2006 Green Toronto Award for Energy Conservation

2005 Tridel Wins Tarion High-Rise Builder of the Year Two Years in a Row!
Tridel is very pleased and honoured to have won this very prestigious Tarion award for customer service again. Only 7 per cent of 5300 builders were even qualified for consideration.

2004 Tarion Home Builder of the Year High-Rise
Tridel Named Home Builder Of The Year High-Rise at Tarion Awards Of Excellence.
Tridel has set some pretty high standards for home building, including their uncompromising commitment to design excellence, technological innovation, and construction leadership.
2004 GTHBA Home Builder of the Year High-Rise
Tridel is very proud to have been selected the Greater Toronto Home Builders’ Association’s Home Builder Of The Year. The prestigious home builder of the year award goes to the builder who sets the standard for the rest of the industry in terms of quality, service and customer commitment.

Ernest Assaly Award for Customer Service
Tridel was the first developer to win the prestigious Ernest Assaly Award for Customer Service Excellence from Tarion (formerly the Ontario New Home Warranty Program or ONHWP)


FYI,... In comparison, here's Bazis EmeraldPark award list,... done!


Also, of interest is how most of HullmarkCentre street-level retail actually have direct entrances from underground P1 level that nobody knows about

 

[Automation Gallery]

FYI,... In comparison, here's Bazis EmeraldPark award list,... done!

Holy Smokes, so Tridel rules and Bazis sucks

 

[steveve]

Today. A few angles I like:

 

[Amare]

This is definitely one of Tridel's best projects in their suite of otherwise bland projects.

 

[Suiseiseki]

The TTC really needs to add metropass access from the south end of the building. I understand they are phasing out the metropass in favour of Presto, but the move to Presto won't be completed until the end of 2019. All you have to do is stand at those unmanned south gates, and within a few minutes I guarantee someone will arrive holding a metropass and will be completely lost as to how to get down to the Yonge line. Currently you have to walk to the other side of the building and enter through the Sheppard line entrance instead.

With all the condos dwellers who live in the area and use that south entrance... many were taking a shortcut behind Hullmark, which forced management to fence off the area to discourage pedestrians from passing through.