Toronto Hullmark Centre | 167.94m | 45s | Tridel | Kirkor

[sunnyraytoronto]

The public square "that everyday people use" is now open and about 99% complete. As you can see from post# 1520 of rendering:
- the water fountain with glass mural along Sheppard is not complete yet
- there's a few more white glow cubes along Yonge
- I think they're still supposed to return and display at this site the "Bonnington Corner" sign and camp fire art display that was part of the previous TTC emergency exit here

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Not really too fond of some of the sharp corners that can be easily damaged and stubb someone's toes,...

 

[Gratty]

What a disaster. The square is mostly concrete with very little greenery and there's nowhere comfortable to sit. I work next door and there were lots of people out enjoying a sunny lunch hour and the Whole Foods patio was packed - but only 2 brave souls bothered sitting on those granite slabs. If the site had lots of proper benches - made for sitting and not just to be looked at - there would've been 20-30 people having lunch in the square.

What a wasted opportunity. With it's size and set-back from Yonge, this could've been a meeting place and full of life. Instead it's just something you pass through. How could such a well executed development miss the mark so badly on such a critical public space.

 

[whatever]

What a disaster. ... What a wasted opportunity. With it's size and set-back from Yonge, this could've been a meeting place and full of life. Instead it's just something you pass through. How could such a well executed development miss the mark so badly on such a critical public space.

It sounds like you're over dramatizing a bit. It the disaster is that they didn't put benches in the fix is just simply putting benches in. It's not like they have to tear down the square to address the issue. Send management an email, see what they say.

 

[maestro]

Well executed development? There's only one side that looks decent. The transition from office to residential seems more engineered than designed

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

What a disaster. The square is mostly concrete with very little greenery and there's nowhere comfortable to sit. I work next door and there were lots of people out enjoying a sunny lunch hour and the Whole Foods patio was packed - but only 2 brave souls bothered sitting on those granite slabs. If the site had lots of proper benches - made for sitting and not just to be looked at - there would've been 20-30 people having lunch in the square.

What a wasted opportunity. With it's size and set-back from Yonge, this could've been a meeting place and full of life. Instead it's just something you pass through. How could such a well executed development miss the mark so badly on such a critical public space.

We can only dream that the Menkes development at 4800 Yonge (southwest corner of Yonge & Sheppard) build a similar public square,.... more likely won't get any public square at all!

BTW, the little greenery that was just planted will eventually grow bigger!

Actually, original rendering from Tridel of public square "is mostly concete with very little greenery" and giant video screen. Attached or see more photo from ProjectEnd post no. 289
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/hullmark-centre-nycc-tridel-hullmark-45-35s-kirkor.668/page-20

After much consultation with city planning and community, the most recent rendering (see post no.1520 from Salsa) and what was built has alot more dark gray & black granite - marble pavers, borders and bench slabs - for that high end classy look. The city eliminated the giant video screen because they didn`t want Yonge-Sheppard to look like Yonge-Dundas Square.

WholeFoodsMarket set up their own patio tables and chairs outside everyday and are responsible for cleaning their area in front of their store. If they had placed chairs and tables in the public square, it would basically become a food court for the McDonald`s and 7-11 across the street and HullmarkCentre would be stuck cleaning up the constant mess. You`ll notice, there`s lots of flat open space in the public square front of the Rexall drugstore and RBC Bank - plenty off room for patio tables if these retail space were to ever become a restuarant or something similar - and of course then they would be responsible for cleaning that area.

With a public square like at HullmarkCentre which is full public access on private property, they generally want to design a welcoming area that`s comfortable for everybody but not too comfortable (like tables, long benches and shaded areas) that would encourage loitering and homeless people to camp out there because that would discourage other people from using the public square.

 

[ehlow]

Nice lighting on that square, but yeah, it needs benches, tables, chairs. It would also help if the Rexall became a bar or restaurant eventually.

We've seen something similar at the former Yonge-Eg square where it was just concrete with very little seating.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I really can`t imagine why anyone would actually want to use outdoor tables,... this isn`t a patio area where there`s staff to keep the tables clean,... these outdoor tables will never be cleaned. There are outdoor tables in some of the local city parks like AlbertStandingPark (southwest corner of Sheppard & Beecroft), MelLastmanSquare and new GibsonSquare RoseGardenPark,... but would you actually use these outdoors tables to eat knowing that kids routinely stand on them, mothers use them to change their babies diapers, homeless people camp out on them, etc,... and there`s nobody to ever clean them!

HullmarkCentre public square already has benches (black granite or marble slabs) near each of those glow cubes. The permanent cement in ground tree planter along along Yonge and Sheppard are high enough to act as benches if need be. If someone need more comfortable seating then there`s the leather couches in the GrandHall of HullmarkCentre north tower office lobby (closed at night) - good for privacy since that office tower only a few of the offices are occupied so far.

BTW, Tridel HullmarkCentre should be installing some outdoor bike racks near the TTC subway entrances, WholeFoodMarket and the public square soon,...


If you need a table, the food court at nearby Sheppard Centre is usually accessible at all hours - there`s usually people hanging out there after the mall and stores are closed. They have cleaning staff that keep the area clean and Mall Security doesn`t seem to mind.

On the west side of Yonge, EmeraldPark *should* have some outdoor umbrella tables along Yonge, Beecroft, Poyntz and some one Bogert,... or at least, that`s what their rendering shows,.... but they`ll probably only be putting outdoor tables near the food court area in along Beecroft since that area should have cleaning staff to keep those tables clean, but even that seems to be at risk since they've actually installed flower planters and stairs nearby taking up too much space. Why would anyone put outdoor umbrella tables near a TTC subway entrance? Originally, their Starbucks cafe was to be on Yonge Street so that might explain some of the outdoor umbrella tables along Yonge Street but since then the Starbucks been downsized to a second floor kiosk booth - more likely as a food station of Metro.

 

[ehlow]

Umm.. sunny ray, I feel like I'm stating the obvious here but:

There are plenty of places with outdoor tables, benches and chairs in parks and squares all across Toronto and they're full of people enjoying them. I'm sure you and everyone else has seen people sitting outside eating or just sitting at outdoor tables and benches in parks and squares..

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

In a public square like HullmarkCentre created via Section 37 with full public access on private property, it`s quite difficult to get the land owner to put in tables, simply because it creates a mess that the landowner would be responsible for cleaning up so they need to direct constant resources to the cleanup of the area.

If you think Tridel HullmarkCentre should have tables in the square then ask them to put them in,.... good luck!

Tridel and especially Hullmark has an image of being bike-friendly, but you have no idea how difficult it was just to get HullmarkCentre to add bike racks on street level in front of WholeFoodsMarket and TTC subway entrances. WholeFoodsMarket (by far HullmarkCentre`s largest retail tenant) tends to attract an environmentally friendly consumer base who are more likely to bike. It took WholeFoodsMarket, community groups and city staff over 7 months of constant campaigning to get Tridel-HullmarkCentre to agree to put bike racks at street level! It`s a easy straight forward request, but Tridel HullmarkCentre simply didn`t want to do it! As per Section 37, Tridel-HullmarkCentre put in 132 public bike parking spaces (more than their required 70) with washroom and 3 shower-change rooms - problem is they hid them all in their P1 underground parking level and thus, nobody knows they even exist, so they don`t get used and Tridel-HullmarkCentre was hesitant to add any bike racks on street level when so much of their exsting bike infrastructure go unused and will likely continue to be unused.

 

[interchange42]

They need to improve the signage for bicyclists then, to help them get to the sheltered spaces.

…unless of course they want to make the case in the future for converting the space to some other use because no one ever uses it.

42

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

They need to improve the signage for bicyclists then, to help them get to the sheltered spaces.

…unless of course they want to make the case in the future for converting the space to some other use because no one ever uses it.

42

I`ve already discussed signage for the BikeStation with CityPlanning and HullmarkCentre,.... it`s useless. Tridel-Hullmark Centre doesn`t have a problem putting up signage along Yonge Street (both fixed on poles, in windows and temporary signage on sidewalk) advertising the public underground car parking and entrance at the rear since they charge $20 per day parking (used to be $25 per day). But they refuse to put up any signage advertising the free bike parking spaces in the underground parking level since there`s no revenue to be generated from free bike parking!

Let`s say a cyclist wants park their bike and use the Tridel-HullmarkCentre south TTC entrance at Yonge & Anndale-Poyntz, from this corner the cyclist would need to:
- ride about 100m east along Anndale (slightly downhill)
- then ride about 75m north along the rear driveway behind Tridel-HullmarkCentre
- enter the P1 parking level (technically considered ground level since grade slopes downward from Yonge Street - that`s why CityPlanning allowed bike parking spaces on this level)
- then ride about 50m west in the P1 parking level
- then ride about 75m south in the P1 parking level to get to south bike parking spaces

Net result, the cyclist just rode an extra 250m big circle to get to the bike parking spaces in P1 level, but by walking 50m west in P1 level, this cyclist will be in TTC subway entrance 2 flights of stairs down from street level. So why not just have TTC put in bike ramps (similar to those at VictoriaPark TTC subway station) on these two flights of stairs so cyclist won`t have to travel that extra 250m loop! This will allow cyclists to use the Tridel HullmarkCentre south TTC entrance to get to the P1 parking level of HullmarkCentre where the free bike parking spaces are! Sounds simple,... Since its TTC entrance on Tridel HullmarkCentre property, I requested TTC to ask Tridel HullmarkCentre to install bike ramps at HullmarkCentre cost (as per TTC direct entrance cost - Tridel HullmarkCentre is responsible for all cost associated with both it's south and north entrances, thus bike ramps would have been paid for by Tridel HullmarkCentre at no cost to TTC); after a month TTC refuse request for bike ramps because Sheppard-Yonge south entrance at Poyntz is automatic collector booth and thus they don`t want bikes there,... but bikes won`t be going through the automatic collector booth! Arghhh,...


Now, let`s say a cyclist wants park their bike and use the Tridel-HullmarkCentre north TTC entrance at Sheppard east of Yonge,... similar situtation to the one above but cyclist ends up parking bike on P1 level,... but Hullmark Centre north TTC entrance is connected to P2 level!!!!


Now, let`s say a cyclist wants park their bike and shop at WholeFoodsMarket,... basically enter Tridel HullmarkCentre P1 level from rear driveway and go to north bike parking spaces then take elevator to store. Or enter store with bike and then take elevator to P1 level to park bike.


Even if nobody ever uses the Bike Station at Tridel-HullmarkCentre (132 public bike parking spaces with washroom and 3 shower-change rooms); it would still be extremely difficult for Tridel-HullmarkCentre to ever propose converting it for other usage since it`s part of the Section 37 agreement. Of course, the benefit now that nobody ever uses this unknown BikeStation (public bike parking spaces with washroom and shower-change rooms) is the low on-going maintenance cost.

 

[pipolchap]

I`ve already discussed signage for the BikeStation with CityPlanning and HullmarkCentre

Thanks for the effort! The only way to circumvent this is to publicize this hidden parking on a cycling map or TTC map. Even though it takes more effort to reach the area, I'd much rather leave my bike here over the TTC Harlandale or Yonge subway entrance, any day!

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Thanks for the effort! The only way to circumvent this is to publicize this hidden parking on a cycling map or TTC map. Even though it takes more effort to reach the area, I'd much rather leave my bike here over the TTC Harlandale or Yonge subway entrance, any day!

Yes, you`re right, the HullmarkCentre *Bike Station* did NOT make the latest city of Toronto bike map.

I`ve been informing some of the executives from a number of the local home-condo ratepayers association of these bike facilities at HullmarkCentre, so hopefully that information get trickled down to their memberships. Advertising them too much is a double-edge sword,... I`m afraid if the local teenagers might be tempted to use the hidden change-shower rooms for sexual rendezvous or to shoot up,.... also afraid the area homeless people would be using the public washroom and 3 shower-change room facilities of these bike stations and that would discourage the few cyclist that use them from continuing to use them,... until eventually giving HullmarkCentre reason to shut down the facilities down.

BTW, the city proposed outer ring road bike lanes (northbound Doris and southbound Beecroft) and better alternative inner ring road bike lanes (southbound Doris and northbound Beecroft) (more safer right turns to Yonge Street destinations and service local condos better) were supposed to start construction this month but a couple of months ago was cancelled permanently.

Personally, I we can thank the OliviaChow supporting Cycle Toronto Yonge Street Working Group for this cancellation since they tried to make bike lanes on Yonge Street a municipal election issue last Fall and were very partisan in doing so (look at who they supported VS who actually got elected),... thus pissing off the area councillors and city staff,... now we don`t get any bike lanes on the ring road or Yonge Street,... and since bike lanes have been cancelled for Doris-Beecroft - it means the Doris south extension from Sheppard-Greenfield to Avondale won`t likely get bike lanes either, since there`s no network. To what extent it affect proposed cycling infrastructure in the North Yonge study which is buffered by the Finch Hydro Corridor multi-use trail,.... but needless to say, having the bike lanes on the ring road servicing all those high density condos in North York Centre would have anchored the local cycling network,...

Attached are pictures of the door from HullmarkCentre south TTC Anndale entrance to P1 parking level with bike station (bike parking spaces, washroom, shower-change rooms). First picture shows the original tan steel door that was there for about a year - the tan colour matches the colour scheme for other doors at HullmarkCentre south tower - TTC might have had issues with the tan colour since it could be vandelized and TTC is technically responsible for the TTC station side of this door.

The second picture shows this same door after it`s been replaced by an unpainted stainless steel door about a month ago. I`ve requested bike parking signage on this door but TTC refused (has to go through TTC since TTC is responsible for this side of door). It`s a pain dealing with TTC,... interestingly enough, HullmarkCentre and WholeFoodsMarket put their own signage on this door,... the logo and style of signage doesn`t fit TTC signage standards,.... thus it seems HullmarkCentre and WholeFoodsMarket got sick and tired of dealing with proper channels at TTC and just put in their own signage,...

 

[Angus]

Was walking by the other day and saw the following and could not figure out what they are? Any ideas/explanations? On the Yonge street side just outside the Whole Foods.