Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

I saw @Reecemartin video about that and really hope Hamilton doesn't run into a similar situation. Transit is so damn expensive in North America and it's in large part a result of protectionist regulations (which I am in part in favour of in certain circumstances) and also the lack of transit manufacturers available in North America, in part, likely again because of those protectionist regulations.
I would add that the lack of transit vehicle manufacturers in North America has to do with the lack of transit attitude in North America. Large procurements every 30 years are not financially viable, but with constant expansion and staggered replacements medium sized orders every couple years are much more viable for manufacturers.
 
I would add that the lack of transit vehicle manufacturers in North America has to do with the lack of transit attitude in North America. Large procurements every 30 years are not financially viable, but with constant expansion and staggered replacements medium sized orders every couple years are much more viable for manufacturers.
which is why transit agencies should consider not trying to stretch every second of life out of old equipment a la via rail. its all cyclical.
 
A lot of the criticism of the LRT is born out of misunderstanding. It's pretty safe to say anyone who opposes it just doesn't understand what it is and what it isn't. Once you realize it's a city building project fully funded by the province and feds, it's a no brainer. Why would you oppose it?

Because making the road prettier and more attractive to build on should be secondary to a rapid "transit" project. Moving people efficiently should be the main priority. Hamilton and other cities will continue to grow. We should build it for a future that transforms latent demand from private vehicles to public transport.

A street-level tram line that moves people at the same speed as a bus will cause that conversion as grade-separated trains would.
 
Because making the road prettier and more attractive to build on should be secondary to a rapid "transit" project. Moving people efficiently should be the main priority. Hamilton and other cities will continue to grow. We should build it for a future that transforms latent demand from private vehicles to public transport.

A street-level tram line that moves people at the same speed as a bus will cause that conversion as grade-separated trains would.
It will move them efficiently though. Hamilton isn't Toronto. The B-Line bus is actually very quick, so the same speed as the bus isn't that bad. The issue is that the B-Line is over capacity and gets worse each year as traffic mounts. LRT will solve the two main issues of the current bus system in 20 years; capacity and efficiency. It will bypass traffic in its own Right of Way, and it will multiply capacity by 5 times.

The cultural, economic vitality of the project is a central piece to this project but the transit goals are still being met. Hamilton has a $4b infrastructure deficit. The province/Feds replacing $1,700,000,000 of Hamilton's infrastructure even if it was a failed transit project would still be worth it though is what I think @TheHonestMaple is speaking to.

LRT will take 30-32 minutes from McMaster to Eastgate, that's amazing, right now at 5PM it's estimated to take 41 minutes by bus and 35 minutes by car. The fastest the bus seems to show on Google is 36 minutes end to end at like 7:30PM. LRT taking 32 minutes would be a 10% increase in speed end to end, and if it can match that in rush hour, which I think is the point it would mean a 22% increase in speed.

The current bus times will only get worse as more people move to Hamilton, and the capacity issue will remain. Imagine a future where driving end-to-end takes 45 minutes and taking the bus takes 60 minutes. If LRT can remain sub-35 minutes with high capacity, then it will beat out driving as Hamilton's population grows.

Keep in mind also, that almost nobody goes end to end. Hamilton's project isn't a rapid transit line to downtown, it's more a local transit tram for mostly local trips. Hamilton doesn't and likely won't ever have the same commute patterns Toronto does, where people are taking it from the edges to a central spot which is the terminus. Majority of people will be taking 33% or less of the line which means a full-out Metro for like $10+ billion makes even less sense. A currently average 14 minute bus ride during rush hour will turn into a 10.5m LRT ride. It will improve comfort, encourage riders to take transit rather than drive, but commute times will be changed only marginally. Spending triple the money to get a further 3 minutes just doesn't make sense on a C/B analysis.
 
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Because making the road prettier and more attractive to build on should be secondary to a rapid "transit" project. Moving people efficiently should be the main priority. Hamilton and other cities will continue to grow. We should build it for a future that transforms latent demand from private vehicles to public transport.

A street-level tram line that moves people at the same speed as a bus will cause that conversion as grade-separated trains would.
Move people efficiently should not be the main priority. Rebuilding the slum that is lower central Hamilton along King should be the main priority, which is exactly what this project is designed to do. I'm not sure why people are so opposed to this concept.
 
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which is why transit agencies should consider not trying to stretch every second of life out of old equipment a la via rail. its all cyclical.
Again, transit agencies have no mandate to provide business for transit vehicle manufacturers.

If it costs less to refresh equipment than it does to replace it, that is exactly what they should do, even if it means a transit vehicle manufacturer won't get business.
 
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Move people efficiently should not be the main priority. Rebuilding the slum that is lower central Hamilton along King should be the main priority, which is exactly what this project is designed to do. I'm not sure why people are so opposed to this concept.
Moving 100+ to 300+ people onboard a light rail vehicle IS more efficient than moving one point three people inside 200 individual automobiles.
 
Who they pick in the end isn't strictly relevant, even if they ended up going with Alstom for local reasons having more bids can lower the prices. Obviously if the bidders are aware who the goverment favours then they won't bid and Alstom can charge what they wish.
 
Keep in mind also, that almost nobody goes end to end. Hamilton's project isn't a rapid transit line to downtown, it's more a local transit tram for mostly local trips. Hamilton doesn't and likely won't ever have the same commute patterns Toronto does, where people are taking it from the edges to a central spot which is the terminus. Majority of people will be taking 33% or less of the line which means a full-out Metro for like $10+ billion makes even less sense. A currently average 14 minute bus ride during rush hour will turn into a 10.5m LRT ride. It will improve comfort, encourage riders to take transit rather than drive, but commute times will be changed only marginally. Spending triple the money to get a further 3 minutes just doesn't make sense on a C/B analysis.
I think this is also why the A line needs to be a priority. Hamilton's commuting pattern is generally out of town and an A-line rapid service probably has a lot of latent potential in connecting the suburban mountain to the GO Stations. The A-line should definitely focus on speed over local service because of this and it would be nice to have it fully grade seperated (elevated light metro pls, bring in experts from BC and the CDPQ).
 
I think this is also why the A line needs to be a priority. Hamilton's commuting pattern is generally out of town and an A-line rapid service probably has a lot of latent potential in connecting the suburban mountain to the GO Stations. The A-line should definitely focus on speed over local service because of this and it would be nice to have it fully grade seperated (elevated light metro pls, bring in experts from BC and the CDPQ).
Sorry... no. This is the population density map for Hamilton. Which line has more residents along its route? Commuting flows may feed from the low-density Mountain down into downtown, but doesn't actually mean the A-Line would be effective as it would require many residents to connect on local buses which HSR still likes to run fairly infrequently (= slower overall travel time). The return on investment would simply be much lower.
1702046741047.png
 
Sorry... no. This is the population density map for Hamilton. Which line has more residents along its route? Commuting flows may feed from the low-density Mountain down into downtown, but doesn't actually mean the A-Line would be effective as it would require many residents to connect on local buses which HSR still likes to run fairly infrequently (= slower overall travel time). The return on investment would simply be much lower.
View attachment 525545
If the zoning allows for higher density, mixed use, multi-level buildings, Line A (red) could EVOLVE into a busy line. Depends on the Hamilton Airport height restrictions, of course.

1702048356873.png
 
Sorry... no. This is the population density map for Hamilton. Which line has more residents along its route? Commuting flows may feed from the low-density Mountain down into downtown, but doesn't actually mean the A-Line would be effective as it would require many residents to connect on local buses which HSR still likes to run fairly infrequently (= slower overall travel time). The return on investment would simply be much lower.
View attachment 525545
From your comment I can't tell whether you understood Bren or not. Bren isn't suggesting I don't think think that the A-Line should be prioritized over the B-Line LRT, but that the city should be making steps to move forward with the A-Line as the next rapid transit service.

It makes a lot of sense because Upper James has a (pardon my French) shitload of space to redevelop. It's largely strip malls, big box, and parking lots. Ripe for a rapid transit line to spur growth. It's already somewhat starting without the A-Line. The A-Line would also connect both central Go stations, future bus hubs, the airport, and be a north/south spine for the remainder of the mountains east/west bus lines (which are planned to vastly improve with the new HSR plans based around the LRT).

The density might not be there today, but it surely will be tomorrow and it's best to plan ahead (urban planning wow) and put the density along that corridor which could connect most on the mountain to downtown/Go stations with one connection at Upper James, not to mention the $3b-$4b future LRT line.
 

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