Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

mdrejhon:

I'll be attending the City Hall Info Session tonight.

Are there plans on having Hamilton LRT advocates attend the Stoney Creek, Mountain and Dundas sessions? I am anticipating a colder reception and a lot of misinformation.

During Supercrawl I was meeting a friend near the LRT protoype on King William. While waiting for about five minutes I saw two people walk by, likely from the outskirts, ranting to their family about how LRT will cost too much money or tear apart the roads. I overheard a similar conversations at a Tims on Rymal last month. There is still so much misinformation out there, mostly from suburban and Flamborough residents.
 
mdrejhon:

I'll be attending the City Hall Info Session tonight.

Are there plans on having Hamilton LRT advocates attend the Stoney Creek, Mountain and Dundas sessions? I am anticipating a colder reception and a lot of misinformation.
I will not be able to attend myself, but I know others who are.
I will be there about 7pm due to work. Feel free to say hi!

Note: I am deaf, so sometimes I chat by iPad.
 
Two things:

(1)
I talked about the Gage Rd LRT station may be desired if the Gage GO station is built, to permit north-south bus connectivity for this.

Yes, DC83 -- that was your suggestion that Scott should be moved to Gage Rd instead. I talked at length about this idea -- as I actually agree in the circumstance of the Gage GO station [Metrolinx PDF] scenario). Also, separately, a third scenario was also mentioned, that it be built at Scott now, and be moved to Gage Rd when Gage GO gets built (say, in the 2030s). I submitted a handout with this suggestion, and reminded them they already own the land (former Lloyd's glassworks) needed for a Gage GO station.


No, DC83 -- that's also simultaneously keeping Delta LRT station (for me, because of CP rail underpass, Delta has now become even more suddenly important to neighbours as a necessary quid pro quo for the opposition to underpass -- sorry, DC83, Gage Rd, for me, isn't a substitute for Delta LRT station, and besides the underpass are forced to keep LRVs slow at both GageRd/Delta so stopping at both would be low-impact stops (little added deceleration/acceleration) due to the permanent LRV speed limit in the section of of the Delta curve and the CP underpass.

(2)

I observed huge popularity of the Delta LRT station at Gage Park; it was the most heavily requested missing LRT stop.

This has remained consistent during PIC #1 and PIC #2 -- and by the time I left, one had more than a dozen green stickers (one per person -- I noticed people coming and leaving to leave a sticker throughout the evening).

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This even made it into an article in our main paper, The Hamilton Spectator:

"Central Hamilton resident Tony Lemma, 53, attending the evening session, was pleased with current LRT plans, calling them "transformative," though he did suggest adding a stop at Gage Park — a popular suggestion, according to Hope."

Besides being a major Hamilton attraction, the park is in a location that lets people get "pretty much anywhere in the city," said Lemma.
 

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I dropped by the Session right at 6 and was surprised by the number of opponents who attended, many of whom were offering nonsensical advice to professional engineers and planners.

I emailed Metrolinx following the event and suggested they hire a security guard for the sessions on the Mountain and Stoney Creek.
 
Compared to Toronto's way of doing things, this LRT plan seems to be lacking many crucial stops. Why is there no Barton stop on the James LRT, for instance. No stops at Bay or Locke Streets? Seems like West Hamilton is only getting four stops. And yes, a stop at Gage or Delta makes total sense.
 
I dropped by the Session right at 6 and was surprised by the number of opponents who attended, many of whom were offering nonsensical advice to professional engineers and planners.
I noticed too, but also noticed lots of pro-LRT attendance. And some prominent majors such as Ryan McGreal and Graham Crawford was there too!

As for security guards, I'd rather be civil and diplomatic to people who have concerns about LRT.

But I can anticipate as attendance declines towards the final (duplicate) consultations, and the consultations reach the outer areas -- reception may be unexpectedly more hostile. That said, I trust the staff to do what's civil and respectful. They will not be barred form premises, as they have every right to be there, but they should not treat these as their own "NOLRT meeting grounds". I saw them doing more visible recruiting during consultation #1, but they were more discreet in consultation #2.

Many of them are just concerned citizens who has been pulled to the equivalent of the "Dark Side" by the more extreme NOLRT members, and simply told to parrot the questions off their "Questions to Ask" sheets. So I remain open and diplomatic where I can be.

After all, some of these are the homeowners that pay $1000 electricity bills and are understandably angry taxpayers, even if I already know LRT is already coming thanks to huge LRT support by the population... The NOLRT members have the herd effect since many of their neighbours are truly against LRT, and falsely think there's zero pro-LRT support.

That said, I agree their "Questions To Ask" sheet read as being fairly unknowledgeable about modern LRTs. I think it's a time-hogging tactic. They consumed a lot of time from city employees that could have better been spent tending to curious Average Joe citizens who don't have a passionate YES/NO stake.

The NOLRT group have been putting up hundreds of posters on telephone poles, that are quickly ripped down by ordinary residents unbeknownst to us (there's wide support for LRT locally). We have avoided putting up YES LRT posters on telephone poles because it is illegal.

As the CBC art survey shows, there is extremely strong LRT support locally (at least along Wards1-4), and all major pro-LRT social media feeds of all separate/independent pro-LRT groups (>1000, >1000, >700, and >600 Likes or Followers, at time of this writing) are all massively bigger than the biggest anti-LRT social media feeds (<140 <75, and <40, at time of this writing). Small but super-vocal, a few people trying to out-talk lots of proLRT members -- in front of confused followers that do not have a stake in either.

Needless to say, the more extreme members of NOLRT appears to not be being taken seriously by the general populace:

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(...and other tweets like this...)

This is the MAIN anti-LRT group locally.

Most other NOLRT are just ordinary citizens that are concerned taxpayers -- that see through that kind of ridiculousness -- as LRTs are not going to be carrying oil.

I don't judge the average NOLRT resident by the standard of the more extreme NOLRT leaders -- many are just concerned taxpayers that are just overwhelmed by the drama between the Trump-like extremes.

So yes, Hamilton has some Ford-like shenanigans occurring behind the scenes, but generally the support is (on average) surprisingly high proportions even in City Council & population when you see through the ridiculous claims.

However, I am happy to engage with open-minded NOLRT members -- in many cases they have simply been misinformed and I have re-turned-around more than a hundred already in calm discourse. Correct and accurate information is what matters.

I could say more of local shenanigans, but NOLRT people are reading these posts and I'm not wanting to give them any further advantage/heads up.

I agree the LRT plan is not perfect. I don't like the CP rail underpass, myself. But as a car driver, neither is the Red Hill Valley Parkway perfect either -- it was controversial when it was built, there are pros/cons. Even with the cons, many people just wanted it built, and is glad it is there despite the cons. (Thanks to Red Hill and LINC, Hamilton-Burlington now has a ring road system that has finally made the LRT possible, but many change-resistant suburban residents do want to give up some lanes of an old crosstown artery to LRT. From a Torontoian perspective, it feels like demolishing the Gardiner to many of them).

Just because there are several cons doesn't mean I don't want the project built anyway.

The whole is far bigger benefits for Average Joe User in the city. The electorate is asked to attend PICs to help make tweaks to the plan (like the addition of select stations, and other urban realm improvements).

And yes, we also have to help businesses survive construction.
 

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Thanks for the inside photos! Glad at least one other person wants a stop at Gage & King lol

I get why ppl want a stop at the The Delta.. It's pretty. I'm also worried a stop at The Delta could mean the demolition of the pizza pizza building which (the bldg not the business) is iconic. Not to mention I hate tearing down beautiful old buildings.
Sad to hear the Bird Insurance bldg (aka Rebelz Clothing) is on the chopping block :( It's also iconic.

The people who want a stop at The Delta and Scott Park don't seem to understand the needs of transit riders who need a quick and simple connection to the higher order transit system it should feed.
 
Compared to Toronto's way of doing things, this LRT plan seems to be lacking many crucial stops. Why is there no Barton stop on the James LRT, for instance. No stops at Bay or Locke Streets? Seems like West Hamilton is only getting four stops. And yes, a stop at Gage or Delta makes total sense.

There is a stop at Barton on the A-Line spur, it's called West Harbour as that's where the GO station by the same name is.

The B-Line LRT's stops are based on the current, successful B-Line Express Bus. To add more stops would hinder the 'rapid' part of this project.
I'm not 100% behind a Dalewood stop in the west end, but not 100% against it either (considering the McMaster Terminal will now be located on the western edge of campus).
But yes 1000000% they need to move the Scott Park stop to Gage @ King to get riders to-from the B-Line as conveniently as possible so that it's a viable alternative to getting in their car.
 
Why Gage Ave @ King over Scott Park?

-New High School Students will use that stop ~ 160 days / year (44%)
-Football Fans will use the Stadium 10-11 days / year (3%)
-Transit Riders will use Gage @ King 365 days / year. That's 100% of the days!

Please go to an info session or fill or the feedback form on the city's light rail website and ask for function over NIMBY's!
 
There is a stop at Barton on the A-Line spur, it's called West Harbour as that's where the GO station by the same name is
.
I just noticed! The south end of the LRT station abuts Murray St, one short block north of Barton -- 110 meter walk from Barton.

I had wondered why the station was not directly on the bridge for the GO station, but I guess this is why! To be close to Barton while still steps away from West Harbour.
 
I just noticed! The south end of the LRT station abuts Murray St, one short block north of Barton -- 110 meter walk from Barton.

I had wondered why the station was not directly on the bridge for the GO station, but I guess this is why! To be close to Barton while still steps away from West Harbour.

Has your group heard any feedback on the Queenston Terminal? Just curious as to what others have commented on it.
Personally I think it's pathetic as-is.
With all this 'feedback' based around moving/adding stops, I'm afraid Queenston Terminal will be left out of the conversation.

Edit: Here's the terminal I'm talking about:

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The commentary on the Queston Terminal is a little lacklustre. People are loudly whining for Eastgate extension. Forest for the trees, you know?

(...but that's Phase 2, even if it could happen sooner in good political scenarios -- I am optimistic to see an Ottawa style scenario of funding Phase 2 while Phase 1 still not finished yet...)

As much as I rather reduce car driving use overall, I'd rather have a mixed use development with a large hybrid underground parking garage (for park-n-ride, ala Calgary C-Train LRT).

This transit terminal clearly integrates with the Niagara GO buses, and other buses that takes the skyway, along with connections to Eastgate and other places, and may perhaps eventually integrate with an T-Line BRT(-lite) that could be relatively quickly started up by then. Basically like the I-XPress buses in Waterloo that doubled in speed thanks to traffic priority (wireless automatic green light signalling, essentially), halved the crosstown ride.

I was born in Ottawa, lived in Ottawa, lived and breathed BRT since 1983 with The Transitway, so here's an example -- If accompanied by a major bus expansion, this will be a very important station, much like Ottawa's Hurdman bus station that integrates two BRTs. That Hurdman Ottawa transit terminal, built in the 1980s, was popular but stupidly out in the middle of nowhere (not even buildings, houses or apartments). Although there was eventually a large apartment/condo building boom along Riverside Drive.

This Queston "transit hub" plan -- as "meh" or "sigh" it is -- this is MUCH better located than that Ottawa abomination (Hurdman Station). It's near the Skyway and near the Kenilworth Access -- good location for a transit terminal from that perspective if viewed from the Ottawa BRT perspective. But in Ottawa, the Hurdman transit terminal is inside the Greenbelt! It is surrounded by nothing but protected parkland (NCC) in the greenbelt!

Let's at least count our lucky stars that Traffic Circle is better than that. I feel this Traffic Circle transit terminal will be a very popular transit hub (as Hurdman was popular because it was a bunch of rapid transit routes converging), as long as we follow Rapid Ready.

With Rapid Ready -- get that big bus barn (now comparable in size and cost to VIVA's new bus barn, at its reduced $150M cost), get that expanded bus fleet & connect rapid transit routes properly. The Rapid Ready plan. The fed $36M transit grant to Hamilton, now desired to be spent on bus barn/bus expansion ($150M for the barn, $100M other Rapid Ready expansions) with an attached spending deadline will hopefully help kickstart Rapid Ready by its sheer deadline.

Over a 25 year period, I'm pretty sure the Traffic Circle area will densify around the transit terminal at Queston, even when there's an Eastgate extension.

As for advocating an alternate plan, I'm open to ideas, but it's been low priority as this is just a bland barely-ripened tomato, not a rotten tomato. At the very least, being a cheap flat transit terminal means the door is open for a later mixed-use development.

_________

Other Concerns -- which I'm discussing

There is a laundry list of fishes to fry (like my concern about the greatly-enlarged racetrack car turning radii at places like Proctor Blvd -- it's because it is for garbage truck turning -- because of limited space for these vehicles. This will have a side effect: It will allow right-turning cars to turn faster straight into kids playing street hockey on residential roads. Not all turning radii have been enlarged, but it's a scary ~5x turning radii enlargement at Proctor (it's there chiefly because of garbage trucks).

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The grey line is the "BEFORE" curb. The blue line is the "AFTER" curb.

I've been discussing/suggesting possible alternate solutions for that to City and Metrolinx staff -- like the idea of instead removing a small ~20 feet section of the residential bouelvard median curb (Proctor Blvd) to allow the street corners to keep sharp turning radii. This shortens the crosswalk while still enabling garbage trucks to still turn onto Proctor (unhindered by the residential boulevard curb at the intersection). And most importantly, help prevent/discourage high-speed turns by cars onto the residential streets.
 

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^ Great! Let's make sure a more urban, transit oriented plan develops here.
Please keep this conversation going within your group and the City so that the stop relocation topic doesn't dominate.
We know how the City likes to direct its own feedback..
 
Mark you make a great point about the new turning configurations, but my main concern is whether those buildings will have to be torn down?

Looks like Bird Insurance at Main/Kenilworth is on the chopping block, as well as the old Scotia Bank at King/Sherman.
There's potential issues at the iconic pizza pizza bldg at the Delta. There are also three historic structures at King & Gage that are look to be going as well?

Thanks for bringing this up. I'm very worried at the potential loss of our urban fabric here.
 

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