Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[mdrejhon]

The LRT mockup was displayed here in Hamilton at Supercrawl (which was VERY rainy both days -- Saturday and Sunday).

It was a big hit as a dry shelter -- with people inside getting shelter from the rain; staff was inside to answer questions.

(Credit: mine!)

 

[nfitz]

How did it differ from the unit they displayed at the CNE for the last 2-3 years, and before that at the brickworks?

 

[mdrejhon]

How did it differ from the unit they displayed at the CNE for the last 2-3 years, and before that at the brickworks?

The same, I think. Hamilton is going to use the same Flexity Freedom as the other Toronto LRTs, including the Eglinton Crosstown.

But what was different: It's the first time any modern LRT (demo or otherwise) has arrived on a Hamilton street -- so it was quite the novelty to thousands of local citizens, as the weather waxed and waned.

 

[nfitz]

Metrolinx said it was a different unit. Did it look new - have a new car smell?

 

[mdrejhon]

Metrolinx said it was a different unit. Did it look new - have a new car smell?

My memory is foggy on Metrolinx's earlier LRT demos -- I did not see the 2015 CNE setup.

But yes, it certainly had a new car smell, amplified by the humidity of the rain and wet footsteps.
The front boarding area immediately reminded me of the new TTC subway cars:
(It will look the same for the front/rear ends -- bidirectional reversible with cabs on both ends)

(Credit: Simon Granat on twitter)

(Credit: TheSpec)

There was a combination of very wide low-floor areas, easily wheelchair accessible, with a bit of narrow areas (over the bogies), some areas four seats wide (good for families facing each other; there were quite a few that rested on this Supercrawl LRT and had food truck snacks, staying out of the train -- like real passengers).

Lots of compliments went around, the kids really had fun sitting in the driver's seats. Albiet there was the complaint of the narrow hall area may make it hard for people to cross each other (Though, mind you, the same can be said for certain sections of today's buses as well -- especially the rear parts). At least we'd get all-door boarding (plenty of doors), so that should help.

This demo was only a 2-segment LRT, while the planned vehicles will have 5 segments (the segments are expandable, and/or daisychainable to 4 vehicles in a C-Train style manner). So a city can eventually have a block-long train of LRT vehicles, in the same style as the Calgary C-Train (which uses 3 LRTs daisychained).

One new thing I learned is that it's designed to let sections be added into the middle of the LRT (a 3 segment LRT can be upgraded to a 5 segment LRT locally at the LRT maintenance facility, no need for return to factory) -- allowing for a city to expand the length of their LRTs over time. Applies to all LRT routes using Flexity Freedoms. Something I didn't know!

 

[nfitz]

I should have photoed the one I was in at the EX a couple of weeks ago. I've been past it many a time (often at the Brickworks, but it was seldom open). But never actually gone inside before. Felt very much like the Flexity I'd just taken to get to the Ex.

Though both feel noticeably wider than the Flexities running in Vancouver in 2010. In theory the Metrolinx one is wider, but I didn't perceive a different ... though I measured the aisle (2 of my foot and a hand! ). Still waiting to ride a TTC Flexity to compare!

 

[W. K. Lis]

... In theory the Metrolinx one is wider, but I didn't perceive a different ... though I measured the aisle (2 of my foot and a hand! ). Still waiting to ride a TTC Flexity to compare!

The Toronto Orion bus: width 2.59 m
The Toronto Flexity Outlook streetcars: width 2.54m
The Flexity Freedom light rail vehicles: width 2.65m
The Toronto subway car: width 3.15 m
The Montreal metro car: width 2.5 m

So the Flexity Freedom light rail vehicles will be wider than buses, the legacy streetcars, and the Montreal Metro train cars, but narrower than the Toronto subway cars.

 

[nfitz]

The Toronto Flexity Outlook streetcars: width 2.54m
The Flexity Freedom light rail vehicles: width 2.65m

More relevant to my post, is the Flexity's used in 2010 on the Olympic line in Vancouver were only 2.3m. So while that extra 24 cm is quite noticeable, I'm not perceiving the additon of 11 cm more as much.

 

[mdrejhon]

More relevant to my post, is the Flexity's used in 2010 on the Olympic line in Vancouver were only 2.3m. So while that extra 24 cm is quite noticeable, I'm not perceiving the additon of 11 cm more as much.

If I recall right, those were European ones on loan to Vancouver -- naturally, roads there are narrower and that is probably why these are fairly narrow. Were these built in the same factory or a different (European) factory?

 

[nfitz]

If I recall right, those were European ones on loan to Vancouver -- naturally, roads there are narrower and that is probably why these are fairly narrow. Were these built in the same factory or a different (European) factory?

Yes, they were borrowed from Brussels - or at least from the factory ready to be delivered to Brussels. If you click on the picture and look down to the links using the picture, there's a mention of these cars on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Brussels

 

[salsa]

1. Metrolinx will not allow the LRT to go over budget, even if scrapping the spur to the waterfront is what it takes to do that.

2. King St was chosen for the LRT. Council will decide in 2016 whether Main St will be converted to 2-way, however some councillors are likely opposed.

3. Construction will last 5 years

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...-project-before-it-goes-over-budget-1.3240881

 

[Automation Gallery]

Any chance in Ontario we will see any future LRTVs other than Bombardier??

 

[nfitz]

Any chance in Ontario we will see any future LRTVs other than Bombardier??

Yes. Ottawa ordered the Alstom Citadis.

 

[Adjei]

Doesn't this project qualify for federal funding because it will be a P3, why don't they use those funds instead of scaling things back?

 

[mdrejhon]

Doesn't this project qualify for federal funding because it will be a P3, why don't they use those funds instead of scaling things back?

It's my understanding anything that falls off the "scope ladder" gets bumped to a Phase 2, which would require another stage of funding. The extension to Stoney Creek is part of Phase 2; and is shown on the LRT map that came out in the summer.

Observe "Phase II". Anything that falls off the scope ladder isn't permanently cancelled but postponed to a future phase. Also, this is a very important core route (like YUS), not a Sheppard route, so the next dollar that gets funded for LRT, would complete work that was bumped off Phase 1 (capped at $1.2 billion; though the media is quoting the rounded-off $1 billion fiture).

Fortunately, our LRT is much simpler than Ottawa's Confederation and Toronto's Crosstown, being a very straight-arrow route on a wide artery with only one single overpass (403), and no tunnelling. This of course, does not mean the project is risk-free, and LRTs will often cost-overrun -- but not necessarily all of them -- we're watching great positive progress in Waterloo's ION LRT and hope Metrolinx can learn off that, as well to help keep Hamilton's LRT budget under control.

It is also additional noteworthy that Ottawa got Phase 2 funding for their LRT extension, while Phase 1 is still under construction. This could happen during the 2018 and/or 2022 election campaigns. Funding of Phase 2 could come from additional sources, such as the Federal government, as all major parties (to varying extents each) has indicated increasing transit funding.

However, we've started a citizen advocacy (see next post) to keep an eagle eye on this, and make sure that we get the maximum benefit out of every single taxpayer dollar.

It is also noted that Metrolinx has said the City will need to pay for things like utility relocations, and water main work. Some of this is work the City needed to do anyway, but now needs to be accelerated.

Also, at the City meeting, construction will be a rolling system -- it won't be 5 years nonstop construction for the whole stretch; only (a fairly large, but not too large) section will be worked on at a time, to minimize business disruption.