Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[jje1000]

Opinion piece in the local Hamilton news https://www.hamiltonnews.com/opinion-story/9783025-hamilton-s-lrt-is-dead-and-we-helped-kill-it/

Overall lesson- the longer you take to dither about the route/details and to sign the contracts, the more doubts can be raised about the project (as more time passes without results) and the better organized your opponents will be.

 

[gibsonm]

I bet a good starter LRT could be constructed between Ottawa Street and McMaster as a first phase with that billion from the province, whatever the feds are willing to chip in, and some money from the city. If the feds are pouring so much money into Quebec infrastructure, it would be indefensible for them not to support Hamilton. We’ll see what the Auditor General has to say. I’m sure the city can fund its portion incrementally with a long enough amortization. The property tax base along the line will grow. The key is for the city of Hamilton to come forward with a persuasive phase one plan that the provincial and federal governments have no choice but to support, because to do otherwise is unfair.

 

[mdrejhon]

#elxn2022

 

[mdrejhon]

I bet a good starter LRT could be constructed between Ottawa Street and McMaster as a first phase with that billion from the province, whatever the feds are willing to chip in, and some money from the city. If the feds are pouring so much money into Quebec infrastructure, it would be indefensible for them not to support Hamilton. We’ll see what the Auditor General has to say. I’m sure the city can fund its portion incrementally with a long enough amortization. The property tax base along the line will grow. The key is for the city of Hamilton to come forward with a persuasive phase one plan that the provincial and federal governments have no choice but to support, because to do otherwise is unfair.

I'm going offer one step more ambitious. Both A-Line (Limeridge) and B-Line LRTs funded by 2022 or 2026. We surely can do that for $3-5B. The demographics are changing rapidly enough that we may have an electorate, by 2026, voting in members of Council that will fund a $1B+$1B+$1B three-way split. Hamilton ponying up its billion -- imagine. Unthinkable ten years ago, but all bets are off during the 2020s.

More realistically, some scaled-back plan will occur, along with some improved provisions to woo the Mountain. More thinking of the whole city will probably occur, in desparate politics. (Thanks, Almagamation!)

Barring that, one thing for sure: There will be lots of resurrect-the-LRT debates in the coming years by hundreds. Dozens are certainly worn out and are done with the debate -- but yet others are not and will certainly fight the good fight on #yesLRT. What you see now (the poll) is only just the beginning. It is unfolding as I have predicted just hours before the announce.

What happened to Ottawa is now happening to us.

Yes, LRT construction completion date 2025 is likely dead. But the LRT is not dead in perpetuity.

Mark my words: #elxn2022. Bring popcorn.

 

[WislaHD]

I bet a good starter LRT could be constructed between Ottawa Street and McMaster as a first phase with that billion from the province, whatever the feds are willing to chip in, and some money from the city. If the feds are pouring so much money into Quebec infrastructure, it would be indefensible for them not to support Hamilton. We’ll see what the Auditor General has to say. I’m sure the city can fund its portion incrementally with a long enough amortization. The property tax base along the line will grow. The key is for the city of Hamilton to come forward with a persuasive phase one plan that the provincial and federal governments have no choice but to support, because to do otherwise is unfair.

Hamilton could feasibly make the length of the LRT line into a tax increment financing (TIF) zone to help finance the construction of the LRT.

It would be a little disappointing that the future property tax revenues of the area would have to be used for infrastructure investment, rather than just using provincial dollars to accomplish the right thing, but I believe the knock-on benefits to the City of Hamilton would be worth the lost property tax revenue.

 

[mdrejhon]

TIF, if we must.

All options are on the table.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Hamilton could feasibly make the length of the LRT line into a tax increment financing (TIF) zone to help finance the construction of the LRT.

It would be a little disappointing that the future property tax revenues of the area would have to be used for infrastructure investment, rather than just using provincial dollars to accomplish the right thing, but I believe the knock-on benefits to the City of Hamilton would be worth the lost property tax revenue.

New York City has an income rate of 3.078% to 3.876%. Hamilton zero.

New York City has a sales tax rate of 4.5%. Hamilton zero.

They usually combine those taxes with the state taxes. From link. For various cities and states sales taxes, see link.

Hamilton has to beg the Ontario government for funds, like Toronto.

 

[drum118]

New York City has an income rate of 3.078% to 3.876%. Hamilton zero.

New York City has a sales tax rate of 4.5%. Hamilton zero.

They usually combine those taxes with the state taxes. From link. For various cities and states sales taxes, see link.

Hamilton has to beg the Ontario government for funds, like Toronto.

No city in Canada has a sale tax like the US cities. No US Cities has a State or Federal Tax on anything you buy other than gas compare to Canadian Cities that have it on everything anything we buy. You pay a city, state and Federal tax on your income at tax return time compare to our Provincial and Federal tax.

You can claim more on your Tax Return than we can to lower our tax return. If you live outside New York City, your income rate will be mostly lower than what people pay if they live in the city at Income Tax Return time. I pay less than the city folks by living outside the city I worked in.

US Cities can say X % of the city tax can go to Transit or anything and it done by voting on it. Lots of cities have voted down an increase in sale tax increase for transit or x over the decades.

 

[W. K. Lis]

No city in Canada has a sale tax like the US cities. No US Cities has a State or Federal Tax on anything you buy other than gas compare to Canadian Cities that have it on everything anything we buy. You pay a city, state and Federal tax on your income at tax return time compare to our Provincial and Federal tax.

You can claim more on your Tax Return than we can to lower our tax return. If you live outside New York City, your income rate will be mostly lower than what people pay if they live in the city at Income Tax Return time. I pay less than the city folks by living outside the city I worked in.

US Cities can say X % of the city tax can go to Transit or anything and it done by voting on it. Lots of cities have voted down an increase in sale tax increase for transit or x over the decades.

Canada replaced their federal excise tax with the goods and service tax (now called the Harmonized Sales Tax) in 1991. The USA kept their federal excise tax (see link). The excise tax was paid on by retailers on goods purchased from manufacturers, importers, or wholesalers, a hidden tax. See link. Our HST replaced the hidden federal excise tax and visible provincial sales tax. A tariff could be considered an "excise" tax as well, if it is hidden.

 

[micheal_can]

Canada replaced their federal excise tax with the goods and service tax (now called the Harmonized Sales Tax) in 1991. The USA kept their federal excise tax (see link). The excise tax was paid on by retailers on goods purchased from manufacturers, importers, or wholesalers, a hidden tax. See link. Our HST replaced the hidden federal excise tax and visible provincial sales tax. A tariff could be considered an "excise" tax as well, if it is hidden.

The HST is provincial choice, not a federal thing.

 

[W. K. Lis]

The HST is provincial choice, not a federal thing.

HST is a combination of the federal goods & services tax and the provincial sales tax. It is a "value-added" tax. See link. The excise tax used to be 13.5%. Today the federal portion is 5% and Ontario's portion is 8%. Hamilton gets zero.

 

[micheal_can]

HST is a combination of the federal goods & services tax and the provincial sales tax. It is a "value-added" tax. See link. The excise tax used to be 13.5%. Today the federal portion is 5% and Ontario's portion is 8%. Hamilton gets zero.

That is only in Ontario. Before the Ontario government decided to harmonize the tax, you would pay the GST and the PST. All it is is the combination of those in one tax.

 

[W. K. Lis]

That is only in Ontario. Before the Ontario government decided to harmonize the tax, you would pay the GST and the PST. All it is is the combination of those in one tax.

Wrong.

Did you click on the links?

"The HST is in effect in five of the ten Canadian provinces: New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Ontario and Prince Edward Island. The HST is collected by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA), which remits the appropriate amounts to the participating provinces. The HST may differ across these five provinces, as each province will set its own PST rates within the HST. In provinces and territories which have not enacted the HST, the CRA collects only the 5% goods and services tax."

Click on this link for an example.

"The introduction of the HST changed the PST for these provinces from a cascading tax system, which has been abandoned by most economies throughout the world, to a value-added tax like the GST."

Think it's time to go back on topic, the Hamilton Light Rail Transit.

 

[micheal_can]

Wrong.

Did you click on the links?

"The HST is in effect in five of the ten Canadian provinces: New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, Nova Scotia, Ontario and Prince Edward Island. The HST is collected by the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA), which remits the appropriate amounts to the participating provinces. The HST may differ across these five provinces, as each province will set its own PST rates within the HST. In provinces and territories which have not enacted the HST, the CRA collects only the 5% goods and services tax."

Click on this link for an example.

"The introduction of the HST changed the PST for these provinces from a cascading tax system, which has been abandoned by most economies throughout the world, to a value-added tax like the GST."

Think it's time to go back on topic, the Hamilton Light Rail Transit.

That is only in Ontario. Before the Ontario government decided to harmonize the tax, you would pay the GST and the PST. All it is is the combination of those in one tax.

I knew of other province's HST.

Why not do a gas tax increase like Vancouver does for it's transit?

 

[W. K. Lis]

The GTA, or GTHA, or the Toronto CMA, has seen a population increase approaching SIX MILLION people, and it is increasing. Guess where they will be going. Places like Barrie, Oshawa, and a little village called Hamilton.

Toronto CMA Population, 1821 – 2016

From link.

And those numbers keep increasing. That means Hamilton will need something other than the single-occupant automobile to get around. They need the LRT for the future. Doug Ford keeps looking at the past. This means higher density in the existing municipalities, including Hamilton. With higher density they need light rail for local transportation, and GO Trains for commuting far distances.