Hamilton Hamilton Line B LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[innsertnamehere]

It's a complete lie they are selling. Full stop. The costs on Capital construction may have increased, but the $5.5 billion cost is a combination of Constructing+Financing+Maintenance+Operations. This is not a 5x balooning of costs. It's the assembling of a variety of costs which were implicit regardless of any Construction cost increases. For comparison: Finch W LRT and Missisauga LRT

Missisauga LRT:
$1.6 Billion in construction costs
$4.6 Billion RFP award which includes operations, maintenance, financing etc. Also operations are to be done by Transdev, the P3 partner.

Finch LRT:
$1.2 billion in construction costs *with 2 below grade stations*
$2.5 Billion RFP award which includes partial maintenance & financing for the private partners. TTC is covering all ops costs and some maintenance costs not included in that $2.5 billion iirc

both of those RFP awards were done by the Ford govt. I have no idea how on earth they get to $5.5 billion with the Hamilton LRT costs even including all those factors, the Hamilton system is less complex than the Missisauga LRT and the province wasn't going to be on the hook for Operations.

They need to release all their numbers so the public can see. I expect FOIs to be flying in any moment...

One thing with the Hamilton LRT is that there is much more extensive land acquisition requirements. That alone is something like $100 million.

I'm sure the $5.5 number is using absolutely every trick in the book to inflate the cost however.

Edit: looking at the above the actual projected capital cost is $2.8 billion.

Hamilton LRT had some expensive parts, like the rail-rail grade seperation towards the east end of the project and the Longwood Bridge replacement, but generally speaking I'm surprised the number is that high.

 

[Northern Light]

Doug Ford's popularity is going to increase big time when he delivers his long promised income tax cut. People are going to start liking him a whole lot more then.

These kinds of cuts pay for that, but come at the expense of ridings the PCs never stood a chance in anyway. It's a win-win for them.

The income tax cut proposal, while expensive, isn't particularly meaningful for most Ontarians.

Median employment income is only 74k per household in Ontario, and less than 40k per individual.

So let's look at the impact of cutting the 9% bracket, by 20% to roughly 7.2%

It has no impact on the provincial Basic amount of just over 10k.

Nor on the sum to which the first bracket applies which is the first 42k above the exemption.

So in other words, the promised cut would not apply to anyone making $52,000 per year or less, which is the majority of Ontario earners.

But suppose your above that, and earn $70,000


That means roughly a reduction of tax of 1.8% on $18,000 of income.

Or about $324 per year.

Divide that by 26 pay periods, for the average person, and you are a grand total of $12.46 richer per cheque.

I don't see that swinging a whole lot of votes. But that's me.

 

[mrxbombastic]

^ No. It was up to the RFP winner and had to be included as part of their bid I believe.

thanks. i missed that development. edited to correct. So then what the hell are the municipal operating costs? fare subsidies?

Compromise Motion to Ensure LRT Workers are ATU Members - Raise the Hammer

www.raisethehammer.org

 

[salsa]

The income tax cut proposal, while expensive, isn't particularly meaningful for most Ontarians.

Median employment income is only 74k per household in Ontario, and less than 40k per individual.

So let's look at the impact of cutting the 9% bracket, by 20% to roughly 7.2%

It has not impact on the provincial Basic amount of just over 10k.

Nor on the sum to which the first bracket applies which 42k above the exemption.

So in other words, the promised cut would not apply to anyone making $52,000 per year or less, which is the majority of Ontario earners.

But suppose your above that, and earn $70,000


That means roughly at reduction of tax of 1.8% on $18,000 of income.

Or about $324 per year.

Divide that by 26 pay periods, for the average person, and you are a grand total of $12.46 richer per cheque.

What a stupid and unnecessary hit to the province's revenues.

 

[Allandale25]

I have lost track - have the vehicles already been ordered?

- Paul

No. It was up to the RFP winner and had to be included as part of their bid I believe.

 

[mrxbombastic]

One thing with the Hamilton LRT is that there is much more extensive land acquisition requirements. That alone is something like $100 million.

I'm sure the $5.5 number is using absolutely every trick in the book to inflate the cost however.

Edit: looking at the above the actual projected capital cost is $2.8 billion.

Hamilton LRT had some expensive parts, like the rail-rail grade seperation towards the east end of the project and the Longwood Bridge replacement, but generally speaking I'm surprised the number is that high.

The area around the 403 was cost intensive (the bridge over the highway connexting king and main, the longwood bridge). But i cant fathom that things trippled in cost. thats crazy. and if thats the reality, how the hell do they expect to build anything in this province anymore... (SSE and Ontario Line I'm looking at you)

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm very doubtful that most people, including Doug Ford or Caroline Mulroney, include "operating costs" in deciding to purchase their luxury SUVs.

 

[innsertnamehere]

personal e

The income tax cut proposal, while expensive, isn't particularly meaningful for most Ontarians.

Median employment income is only 74k per household in Ontario, and less than 40k per individual.

So let's look at the impact of cutting the 9% bracket, by 20% to roughly 7.2%

It has no impact on the provincial Basic amount of just over 10k.

Nor on the sum to which the first bracket applies which 42k above the exemption.

So in other words, the promised cut would not apply to anyone making $52,000 per year or less, which is the majority of Ontario earners.

But suppose your above that, and earn $70,000


That means roughly a reduction of tax of 1.8% on $18,000 of income.

Or about $324 per year.

Divide that by 26 pay periods, for the average person, and you are a grand total of $12.46 richer per cheque.

I don't see that swinging a whole lot of votes. But that's me.

That's some faulty math, the personal income exemption does not raise every bracket by $10k, just makes the first $10k tax free. Someone would start to see savings at $44,740 (when the tax bracket currently starts).

Average household is $70k in the province, including everyone over the age of 15. Lots of retirees and students in that mix. The "average" household would likely see savings, though not be able to take advantage of the full amount.

It's a tax break for the middle class, but not the poor, basically. And the average range of middle class would likely see very little, with upper middle class benefiting the most.

As for the total savings, its, not world changing, but there. A lot of people are cheap and would prefer that $30-$60 a month in their pocket than an LRT in Hamilton or their kid not have to take an online course in high school.. (not saying I agree with that).

You have to picture the PCs key demographics. They are rural, generally low income voters who vote PC no matter what, and their swing ridings, which are the wealthy suburban 905 ridings with average incomes closer to $100k. That type of demographic benefits big time by the proposed tax cut.

 

[Coolstar]

What about this thread? What will be the future of it? Will it slowly die out or be reused as a BRT thread on case Ford ever decides to build a Hamilton BRT?

 

[crs1026]

Here are Metrolinx' figures from the Capital Projects Reports to its Board from June and November 2019 Board meetings. Note how the baseline for Crosstown, Finch LRT and Hurontario all change, as the result of moving to the "all-in" costing from the prior "capital cost only" baseline. One would expect that Hamilton would change in like fashion. There was certainly no objection from Queens Park when the other numbers escalated.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

What about this thread? What will be the future of it? Will it slowly die out or be reused as a BRT thread on case Ford ever decides to build a Hamilton BRT?

Ford will not agree to this, so when the next new Premier is elected in, then it might be back on.

 

[W. K. Lis]

What about this thread? What will be the future of it? Will it slowly die out or be reused as a BRT thread on case Ford ever decides to build a Hamilton BRT?

More likely either the Liberals or NDP will build the Hamilton LRT. So the thread should remain open. Just the city of Hamilton should keep the plans up to date.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Note that the province is convening a panel to determine what to spend the money on with a report by the end of February. It doesn't seem like they will be doing much consulting with City Council on what to build, and will come to the decision fairly quickly.

 

[rbt]

How much would a dedicated lane, signal priority BRT cost from Eastgate to University Plaza? $350 mil?

Probably close to $2B if you include maintenance, operations, and pensions in escalated (year of spending, so up to 2050 dollars). What is a bus driver salary in 2050? Possibly 200k/year with overhead and since ridership generally grows that's also when you'll need the most of them.

There's no way they're getting tenders for nearly twice the price of Hurontario. Hamilton is shorter, with less traffic congestion, less excavation, and only 1 year later. Did something unexpected happened with soil testing or is it just a made up number.

 

[robmausser]

Ignoring the fabricated inflation to 5.5$ billion when including ongoing costs, 2.8$ billion for the capital costs of this project seem quite high. And almost triple the $1 billion estimate.

It would be interesting to know what happened