Markham GTA Centre | ?m | ?s | GTA S. and E. | BBB

[Markham VIP]

The article for those interested: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/04/29/markham-mum-on-bettman-talks/

Very interesting that Gary was even there to meet with them before voting, and that they voted in favour of it immediately after. I wonder if they have an agreement in principle on the Phoenix sale, and they just want to wait until the team is eliminated to make an offer.

For all we know, there could be more than one team on the move this summer, and Bettman is trying to make sure that it doesn't become the circus that it was in Phoenix in 2009.

They did not vote for it "immediately after".
The first paragraph in that article makes it seem like the meeting took place right before the vote....lol
But the in the second paragraph it states that they are talking about a 2010 meeting between Markham and the NHL.
To my understanding, in that meeting the NHL more or less told Markham and Graeme Roustan that if you build and arena, do NOT assume that you will get an NHL team....but who really knows what was said behind closed doors at that meeting?....only the people who were there.

 

[taal]

I second the post above, and that correlates with what I've heard from the public meetings (not directly, but through people I know who attended).

Who knows, anything is possible though ... my guy is telling me there won't be a team for a while at least, but stranger things have happened.

I still think it'd be unfortunate if Quebec city loses out on a team in favor of this location as well, then again they need an arena.

 

[RPM]

obviously Bettman had a positive indication about a future team otherwise i'm sure this would be long dead.

 

[isaidso]

sorry but this is baloney... how many minor league baseball teams are in NYC , LA or Chicago ? none... so by your logic they are not baseball towns. The fact is they are pro sports oriented towns, that's the way Toronto is.... Toronto will only support major league teams. so welcome to the new NHL team and bring it baby !!

as for college sports, canadians so not support college sports PERIOD.

Sorry, but that's just baloney. People in NY and Chicago support baseball at many levels. Chicago is very much a sports oriented town, but the argument that Toronto is as well is a colossal joke. Say that to someone from Melbourne, London, or Pittsburgh and they'd laugh hysterically. I've never heard of anything so absurd. You've obviously never lived in a city where sports are central to the culture. Toronto, a city of 6 million, only manages 2 teams that draw big crowds. TWO!

If a city loves a sport, it will be interested in it no matter what level it is. Your argument that Toronto will only support top tier leagues is an argument that Toronto is NOT a sports town, but one interested in coolness factor over the actual sport. Londoners support 5 Premier League soccer teams, a slew of teams the next division down, the one below that, the one below that, etc. Toronto? Top league or they won't watch? Good god, Toronto is a the epitome of a city that does what ever is considered trendy, cool, or exclusive.

If Torontonians loved hockey, high school games would be packed to the rafters from Scarborough to Oakville. Toronto is a LEAFS town! And Canadians do support college sports.... just not people from the GTA. Toronto isn't Canada.

Laval pull in crowds of 18,000 for football and they're not alone. That's almost as much as the entire metropolitan area of Toronto can muster for their pro team. Not just any pro team either, the oldest pro sports franchise on the continent.

 

[RPM]

Sorry, but that's just baloney. People in NY and Chicago support baseball at many levels. They are very much sports oriented towns, but the argument that Toronto is as well is a colossal joke. I've never heard of anything so absurd. You've obviously never lived in a real sports town. If a city loves a sport, it will be interested in it no matter what level it is. Your argument that Toronto will only support top tier leagues is an argument that Toronto is NOT a sports oriented town, but one interested in coolness factor over the actual sport.

If Torontonians loved hockey, high school games would be packed to the rafters from Scarborough to Oakville. Toronto is a LEAFS town! And Canadians do support college sports.... just not people from the GTA.

there are plenty of people who hate the Leafs in Toronto... this is an NHL town... not just a Leafs town. just heck where you work, most places I have worked it's 50% Leafs, 50% other teams... so I don't buy that crap it's a Leafs town. As a Leafs fan myself, I would buy tickets to a new team. The Leafs are maxed out, they have no more tickets to sell, the demand is overwheleming for season tickets, and with a 99.9% renewal rate that line just gets longer. Well past time a new team came here.

 

[Big Daddy]

obviously Bettman had a positive indication about a future team otherwise i'm sure this would be long dead.

I don't think there is any question. I don't know of any company or city that would risk 160 million without some indication that an achor franchise was imminent and supported by league officilas. There is a lot of banter here, but if you take a serious look at it, it's pretty obvious. Like RPM said, with a with a 99.9% renewal rate for seasons tickets - is there really any risk for a second team?

My only question is how will MLSE respond? I would think a lawsuit or two is inevitable - and probably planned for - unless they have worked out a deal ahead of time.

 

[TOareaFan]

I don't think there is any question. I don't know of any company or city that would risk 160 million without some indication that an achor franchise was imminent and supported by league officilas. There is a lot of banter here, but if you take a serious look at it, it's pretty obvious. Like RPM said, with a with a 99.9% renewal rate for seasons tickets - is there really any risk for a second team?

My only question is how will MLSE respond? I would think a lawsuit or two is inevitable - and probably planned for - unless they have worked out a deal ahead of time.

Like everyone here, I have no idea if or when NHL hockey will land in Markham's new arena. The notion that arenas only get built when there is a guarantee of a franchise is a strange one though.

Winnipeg built their arena.....almost blew it by building it too small....took quite a few years to get a team...hardly think there was an "anchor franchise imminent" when the spades went in the ground.

Oklahoma City, also, had their arena built and ready for quite a while before the imminent franchise arrived.

KC built the Sprint Centre....still waiting for that anchor tenant.

Hamilton....wasn't Copps a "build it they will come" situation? How'd that work out?

Markham may get a team.....but just because they are going ahead with an arena does not mean it is lock.

 

[TOareaFan]

there are plenty of people who hate the Leafs in Toronto... this is an NHL town... not just a Leafs town. just heck where you work, most places I have worked it's 50% Leafs, 50% other teams... so I don't buy that crap it's a Leafs town. As a Leafs fan myself, I would buy tickets to a new team. The Leafs are maxed out, they have no more tickets to sell, the demand is overwheleming for season tickets, and with a 99.9% renewal rate that line just gets longer. Well past time a new team came here.

Until the second team arrives (if it does) we will not know if this city/region is "Leaf" driven or "NHL" driven.

I am one that has often said that this is not a hockey town but, rather, a "Leaf" town but, to be fair, in the absence of another team "Leaf Town" may have been a proxy for "NHL Town".

I am a bigger fan of Junior Hockey than I am NHL hockey. As such, I marvel at how many die hard hockey fans I know that turn down invitations/gifts of OHL hockey.....and then marvel about some rookie kid "they've never heard of" when they get a shot at the NHL. I don't think Toronto is a great hockey town.....it may be a good enough NHL town to support two teams.

Not sure, if those non-Leaf fans will instantly become fans/ticket-buyers for the Markham Monsters or not. After all, if you live in a city with an NHL team and don't cheer for them it is probably because you cheer for someone else. So do the Hab/Bruin/Rangers/Islander fans in Toronto become Monsters fans every night....or just on the nights when the Habs/Bruins/Rangers/Islanders are in town?

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

Can we call them the Markham Littlest Hobo's. Keeps it in the canine family .

I was just telling my friend that I estimate that 20% of Leafs fans in this region will be willing to jump ship if and when a second team arrives in the region, and especially if that team is closer to Toronto than say Hamilton or K-W. They may not all jump at the same time, but if the second team is successful and the Leafs are not than I can see that being the influence for people looking for a home team to cheer for (at the moment the default is the Leafs) in this city.

Yes the leafs are an institution just like the Cubs or Yankees but those people that have less invested as fans of the Leafs than say someone who's been following them for 30 + years would likely switch allegiances.

 

[sixrings]

Can we call them the Markham Littlest Hobo's. Keeps it in the canine family .

I was just telling my friend that I estimate that 20% of Leafs fans in this region will be willing to jump ship if and when a second team arrives in the region, and especially if that team is closer to Toronto than say Hamilton or K-W. They may not all jump at the same time, but if the second team is successful and the Leafs are not than I can see that being the influence for people looking for a home team to cheer for (at the moment the default is the Leafs) in this city.

Yes the leafs are an institution just like the Cubs or Yankees but those people that have less invested as fans of the Leafs than say someone who's been following them for 30 + years would likely switch allegiances.

IM Desperate to jump ships... that being said Markham is far from me and transit is going to be a nightmare unless i come from GO and I dont have much access to that. AS a result Ive been vocal that VCC should be going for this as it would be subway accessable... Anyways Id love to watch the NHL but the Leafs make me sick.

 

[Transportfan]

It would be Toronto "X".....or, remotely possible, Ontario "X". The NHL would not approve a name like Markham "X" simply because their broadcast partners and sponsors would be better able to understand "Toronto 2" than Markham.

I would like the team to be called the "Ontario X" rather than "Markham X" or "Toronto X" because there may be limited fan support from people outside Markham for a team named after Markham. And having two teams named "Toronto" just would'nt seem right to me.

If a second GTA team came to Mississauga on the other hand, "Mississauga X" would work, because it's the GTA's primary suburb with a much larger population, and is seen by many in Brampton and Halton as a mini-alpha city in it's own right.

 

[Marko]

I would like the team to be called the "Ontario X" rather than "Markham X" or "Toronto X" because there may be limited fan support from people outside Markham for a team named after Markham. And having two teams named "Toronto" just would'nt seem right to me.

If a second GTA team came to Mississauga on the other hand, "Mississauga X" would work, because it's the GTA's primary suburb with a much larger population, and is seen by many in Brampton and Halton as a mini-alpha city in it's own right.

Even "Mississauga X" doesn't cut it. "Ontario X" sounds weak - anyone remember the Ontario Raiders MLL team that later became The Toronto Rock? It just has a funny ring to it.

It will be "Toronto X" and it will work, just like the Clippers co-exist with the LA Lakers, the Jets with the NY Giants, the Chicago Cubs with the White Sox, etc...

It will probably have some sort of regional flavor to the name, like the New York Islanders.

Toronto Peelers would work on many levels if the team were in Mississauga, or perhaps Toronto Twisters in homage to the landmark architecture, but I don't know the Markham region well enough to guess what could work.

GTA Centre and Ontario X just sound far too generic to me. One of the electronics firms would likely come to the table with a naming deal for the arena - IBM being the prime candidate since they employ about 20% of the city - but the team? Toronto Yorkies? Dragons, or Tigers, in homage to the Asian community?

 

[RPM]

Toronto Toros

 

[TrickyRicky]

isaidso, I generally agree with your rant but I think you stretch it too far when you suggest that because Torontonian's don't support sports at a lower professional level that they are looking for what is "trendy and cool". I find that people here participate in sports themselves but when they want to watch something they want to watch it at the highest level. I actually see nothing wrong with this as a value proposition. Infact, I would say that that is a healthy attitude.

 

[GenerationW]

My only question is how will MLSE respond? I would think a lawsuit or two is inevitable - and probably planned for - unless they have worked out a deal ahead of time.

When Gary Bettman testified at the Phoenix Coyotes bankruptcy trial a few years ago, he gave a figure of $95 million that the league might charge as a relocation fee. So maybe the Leafs would get all of that and they'd call it a territorial fee. But I'm sure a deal would be worked out before they announced a team was moving here.

Hamilton....wasn't Copps a "build it they will come" situation? How'd that work out?

That's not exactly how it happened. Before going ahead with construction, Hamilton was assured (though not guaranteed) by the league that an expansion team was coming. Obviously certain people in the league had second thoughts.