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Here's the reality:

The NHL is never going to approve a relocation to the GTHA. Why? Because the amount that they can charge in expansion fees to a 2nd GTHA franchise would be more than what a lot of NHL clubs are worth. The NHL will only relocate to places like Quebec City, Kansas City, or Seattle. Places where there's enough demand to put an NHL team, but not enough demand to actually expand there (with the exception of maybe Seattle).

One of the things that was subtly hinted with the NHL's 4 Conference model is the ability to add 2 more teams and put the league into balance. Had this have been implemented next season, it would have only been a couple years before the players and owners would have been clamouring for a couple expansion teams to balance the league again.

Personally I think that after this season Phoenix is moving to Quebec City. After that, the league is going to have a push to expand by 2 teams: Seattle and Toronto (GTHA). There have been talks that Seattle wants to build a new arena for both NHL and NBA use, and there has been an ownership group that has expressed interests at bringing a franchise from each league back at the same time. For them, having 2 permanent tenants would make any new arena much more viable, even profitable.

The NHL will then charge out the butt for a new expansion franchise in Toronto, because they know the potential that that market has. You know that anyone who wants to put a 2nd team in the GTHA is going to need to have deep pockets, and will use them to pay for the territorial rights and the expansion fees. In short, it'll be a cash cow for the NHL and the owners. They would be stupid not to do it.

Look for the NHL to be 32 teams by 2015, with one of those new two being in the GTHA.
 
But what if the saying that Toronto isn't a hockey town but a Maple Leafs town is true?
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
But what if the saying that Toronto isn't a hockey town but a Maple Leafs town is true?
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I doubt that very much. Chicago is Cubs town, but the White Sox still do very well. New York is Yankees town, but the Mets still do very well.

The Islanders may very well be the exception, but they're suffering from an old undersized rink with shitty connections to just about anything.

But with most cities where they have two teams with one being the clear favourite, the other still usually does pretty well.
 
Ramako said:
Would an NHL team in Markham actually be called the "Markham somethings" or would they be the "Toronto somethings"? Aren't professional sports teams in the suburbs of major cities always named after the alpha city?
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Tell that to Chelsea FC or the Western Bulldogs or the Anaheim Ducks!

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
But what if the saying that Toronto isn't a hockey town but a Maple Leafs town is true?
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Considering how many NHL fans there are in the GTA who hate the Leafs, I doubt that. You could make the argument that Toronto is an NHL town, with little support for other forms of hockey. But then again, the GTA has more junior and minor pro teams than any other city. Even the Marlies are generating some serious buzz right now. It could be because we're so starved for playoff sports in this town, but still...
 
I believe this is part of a much larger plan - one that will most likely see a second NHL team in the GTA. There is likely a silent partner that can now prepare to move forward with a very solid plan to acquire an NHL franchise - with an undisputably huge fan bas AND a state of the art arena approved and under construction (not just a group saying they will build an arena - one under construction) I don't see how the NHL could reasonably turn them down. The arena is almost always the piece of the puzzle that brings most of the proposals down and this group has put it to bed first. Really it's quite briliant - Quebec City doesn't have such an arena, in fact they wanted the rest of Canada to build them an arena - not going to happen.

Build the arena first in a market that likely will sell out a seat sale in mere days - what's not to like? What argument could they come up with to turn it down? I think it's brilliant.
 
Big Daddy said:
I believe this is part of a much larger plan - one that will most likely see a second NHL team in the GTA. There is likely a silent partner that can now prepare to move forward with a very solid plan to acquire an NHL franchise - with an undisputably huge fan bas AND a state of the art arena approved and under construction (not just a group saying they will build an arena - one under construction) I don't see how the NHL could reasonably turn them down. The arena is almost always the piece of the puzzle that brings most of the proposals down and this group has put it to bed first. Really it's quite briliant - Quebec City doesn't have such an arena, in fact they wanted the rest of Canada to build them an arena - not going to happen.

Build the arena first in a market that likely will sell out a seat sale in mere days - what's not to like? What argument could they come up with to turn it down? I think it's brilliant.
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The Quebec City arena is farther along than Markham... construction is beginning in September
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ec-city-to-begin-in-september/article2380690/
 
Big Daddy said:
I believe this is part of a much larger plan - one that will most likely see a second NHL team in the GTA. There is likely a silent partner that can now prepare to move forward with a very solid plan to acquire an NHL franchise - with an undisputably huge fan bas AND a state of the art arena approved and under construction (not just a group saying they will build an arena - one under construction) I don't see how the NHL could reasonably turn them down. The arena is almost always the piece of the puzzle that brings most of the proposals down and this group has put it to bed first. Really it's quite briliant - Quebec City doesn't have such an arena, in fact they wanted the rest of Canada to build them an arena - not going to happen.

Build the arena first in a market that likely will sell out a seat sale in mere days - what's not to like? What argument could they come up with to turn it down? I think it's brilliant.
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The Quebec arena funding has been approved. Funding was approved almost exactly 1 month in advance of Markham.

FYI Chelsea is a lousy example.....none of the 13 senior professional teams in London are called "London"
 
canarob said:
Interesting -- thanks for that!

139 concerts a year would put this arena pretty high up on this list.
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If they did that many shows and averaged 10k tickets sold per show.....I think the list indicates they would be second in the world to the O2 in London.

Put another way....that level of ticket sales would make them roughly equal to the 3 New York area NHL rinks combined.

An interesting thought that came to me late in the day today revolves around the Live Nation connection. Their involvement here is not likely to please the folks at MLSE. In fact I would bet that previous to this MLSE would have described LN as a "strategic partner". If there is to be an application for an NHL team here, I hardly think this concert issue is going to be much of an incentive for MLSE to play nice when the words "territorial indemnification fee" come up in that conversation.
 
waterloowarrior said:
The Quebec City arena is farther along than Markham... construction is beginning in September
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ec-city-to-begin-in-september/article2380690/
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And Quebec City can quite easily copy the Ottawa model. Play in the old rink (Collisée in Quebec, Civic Centre in Ottawa) for the first few years, and then move to the new rink when it's completed. The Collisée is a bit worn down now, but the new owners (Québecor is the most likely candidate) can pump a few million to temporarily upgrade the arena.

Markham right now doesn't have that option. The Leafs aren't going to let them use the ACC, MLG is now Ryerson's, and the Marlies won't let them use Ricoh. All of the OHL rinks are way too small to hold an NHL team, even temporarily (the only ones of adequate size are the Civic Centre in Ottawa and the Labatt Centre in London). The only other NHL-capable rink in the GTA right now is Copps in Hamilton, and you can bet Hamilton won't want to be teased with a team for a couple of years only to see them move almost an hour away to Markham.

All of this means that the team won't be coming until the rink is ready to go, at the earliest.
 
gweed123 said:
All of this means that the team won't be coming until the rink is ready to go, at the earliest.
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By which time Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, and Columbus (among others) could be in a position to move. I don't think waiting for the arena to be completed will be the problem, but rather finalizing the deal to satisfy the league and the Leafs.
 
TOareaFan said:
FYI Chelsea is a lousy example.....none of the 13 senior professional teams in London are called "London"
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Well the point I was making was that you don't need the big city name in the team name to get recognition. They usually do in North America, but not always.
 
gweed123 said:
I doubt that very much. Chicago is Cubs town, but the White Sox still do very well. New York is Yankees town, but the Mets still do very well.

The Islanders may very well be the exception, but they're suffering from an old undersized rink with shitty connections to just about anything.

But with most cities where they have two teams with one being the clear favourite, the other still usually does pretty well.
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That only helps prove that NY and Chicago are baseball cities. All the evidence points that this might not be repeated in Toronto and support is for a team, not the sport. The Leafs are the only hockey team in the GTA, out of hundreds of teams, that gets good support. If Toronto were a hockey town, citizens would be attending en masse to hockey at every level: pro, semi-pro, junior, college, high school, etc. The reality is that Torontonians only support the Leafs.
 
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Ramako said:
Would an NHL team in Markham actually be called the "Markham somethings" or would they be the "Toronto somethings"? Aren't professional sports teams in the suburbs of major cities always named after the alpha city?
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Often, but not always. Anaheim Mighty Ducks instead of Los Angeles Might Ducks is a prime example. There are many examples of a team taking the name of a region instead of the alpha city: Texas Rangers, Saskatchewan Roughriders, Utah Jazz, etc. This potential York Region team could easily be called York 'what have you'.

As has been mentioned, none of London's 5 Premier League soccer teams have the name London in their names: Chelsea, Fulham, Tottenham, Arsenal, & Queen's Park

Only 2 of Melbourne's 10 AFL teams have the word 'Melbourne' somewhere in their name: Essendon, Western, Carlton, Collingwood, Richmond, Hawthorn, St. Kilda, Geelong, Melbourne, & North Melbourne.
 
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