Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[EnviroTO]

Let's get this infrastructure built now and worry about making it beautiful with all the fancy trees and shrubs afterwards.

The neighbourhood was in a battle about the negative impacts to their neighbourhood brought about by this grade separation. The neighbourhood doesn't get any benefit from GO trains rumbling overhead on a frequent basis and like the huge improvement removing the freeway over Lakeshore East had on things, this railway bridge through the neighbourhood will have a negative impact. In Weston the neighbourhood won the day and the rail corridor was buried. For Davenport they were sold on a whole lot of these extra benefits to make up for the fact their neighbourhood in Toronto was going to be impacted by this infrastructure that really exists to serve York region. This community doesn't want to see this infrastructure at all.

Saying lets get this infrastructure built now and worry about the negative impacts later is like saying "lets extend the Allen Expressway downtown and worry about the urban blight and livability later", or "sir here is your car, we know we promised you on a Tesla Plaid for the price you will pay, but we are giving you a 1995 Saab 9000 which is fully functional so you can drive now and maybe someday we will give you something similar to what we promised originally".

 

[Undead]

Hey, at least we can take solace in the fact that Metrolinx screws over all communities without prejudice

 

[crs1026]

^The new renders are much blander than what came out of the consultations that were held to supposedly assure residents that their community‘s character was not being eroded.

Call me a pessimist but I never believed the first version were likely - they were too full of goodies. The new renders are much closer to what a regional public agency might actually bother to build before handing the job over to the city.

If you think this reset is egregious, wait til the fight starts (it’s already under way, actually) about the amount of densification that the new GO station at Bloor will bring. The GO station was offered as an olive branch to the community, but it is probably the thing that the community should be fighting. If you believe in transit oriented development, the case for dropping a few towers around a GO station is pretty hard to ignore.

- Paul

PS - I have forgotten, is there a prospect for connections to the pathway north from Dupont and south from Wallace? The new renders hint at that, but I’m having a hard time envisioning the footbridge over the tracks taking people much further.

 

[tsm1072]

PS - I have forgotten, is there a prospect for connections to the pathway north from Dupont and south from Wallace? The new renders hint at that, but I’m having a hard time envisioning the footbridge over the tracks taking people much further.

Ideally, the path would get to St. Clair along the rail corridor (fully grade-separated). But getting to Davenport and then moving the path to go through Earlscourt Park would also make sense.

 

[facepalming_brooklynite]

their neighbourhood in Toronto was going to be impacted by this infrastructure that really exists to serve York region.

But it will also serve city residents! With stops at Liberty Village, Bloor/Lansdowne, Caledonia and Downsview, this will become a good north-south route for rapid transit within city limits.

The GO station was offered as an olive branch to the community, but it is probably the thing that the community should be fighting. If you believe in transit oriented development, the case for dropping a few towers around a GO station is pretty hard to ignore.

There already is a lot of ongoing development and existing development proposals in the neighborhood west of the station: along Sterling and on Bloor between the two train lines

 

[smably]

If you think this reset is egregious, wait til the fight starts (it’s already under way, actually) about the amount of densification that the new GO station at Bloor will bring. The GO station was offered as an olive branch to the community, but it is probably the thing that the community should be fighting. If you believe in transit oriented development, the case for dropping a few towers around a GO station is pretty hard to ignore.

The GO station is the best thing to happen to the neighbourhood in years, and I say that as someone who lives a five-minute walk away from it. Never mind the new transit connectivity, the extra density is a huge win for a neighbourhood that would otherwise be experiencing a long-term decline in population as household sizes shrink. New density around the GO station means more neighbours, which means livelier streets, healthier retail, and more services. So no, I won't be fighting that either.

 

[Mrgeosim]

The neighbourhood was in a battle about the negative impacts to their neighbourhood brought about by this grade separation. The neighbourhood doesn't get any benefit from GO trains rumbling overhead on a frequent basis and like the huge improvement removing the freeway over Lakeshore East had on things, this railway bridge through the neighbourhood will have a negative impact. In Weston the neighbourhood won the day and the rail corridor was buried. For Davenport they were sold on a whole lot of these extra benefits to make up for the fact their neighbourhood in Toronto was going to be impacted by this infrastructure that really exists to serve York region. This community doesn't want to see this infrastructure at all.

Saying lets get this infrastructure built now and worry about the negative impacts later is like saying "lets extend the Allen Expressway downtown and worry about the urban blight and livability later", or "sir here is your car, we know we promised you on a Tesla Plaid for the price you will pay, but we are giving you a 1995 Saab 9000 which is fully functional so you can drive now and maybe someday we will give you something similar to what we promised originally".

This is an accurate description of how things unfolded between Metrolinx and the Junction Triangle community. Most people in the neighbourhood were fuming mad when Metrolinx came here with a plan to build an elevated guideway. This is a part of town experiencing a renaissance after decades of neglect and crime, so its not hard to understand why people would be upset about a plan that would add to the urban blight already scattered throughout the area. To ease that fear, Metorlinx pitched this project as an opportunity to add value to the neighbourhood. Yes, essential transit infrastructure would be built, but alongside that utility there would be attractive elements that would draw people to visit: a dog park, innovate street furniture, a play area for kids, a street market, beautiful lighting, art, etc.. Based on the most recent renderings, none of what I listed remains. Metrolinx used their empty promises to buy time, get shovels in the ground, and exploit this pandemic to divert attention away from their failures.

I live in this neighbourhood and I am hopeful for a turnaround, but it takes careful stewardship of the resources and relationships we have to get there to make this place great. Metrolinx has proven themselves to be a bad actor and an overall liability to this goal for whatever reason (could be money, could be politic. It is really sad because we don't need to have these sorts of antagonistic relationships built on mutual mistrust. Metrolinx wants to build transit they can be proud of and we want a neighbourhood we can be proud of. These aren't mutually exclusive goals

 

[EnviroTO]

The GO station is the best thing to happen to the neighbourhood in years, and I say that as someone who lives a five-minute walk away from it. Never mind the new transit connectivity, the extra density is a huge win for a neighbourhood that would otherwise be experiencing a long-term decline in population as household sizes shrink. New density around the GO station means more neighbours, which means livelier streets, healthier retail, and more services. So no, I won't be fighting that either.

I'm not sure most people in the area consider Bloor and Lansdowne the neighborhood. There is no negative impact to Bloor (no elevated guideway is being built there) and transit there is already good with the subway station. Dupont is to Bloor what Davisville is to St.Clair... except on this line Dupont doesn't get the benefit of the station, they only get the elevated guideway through the neighborhood.

 

[Adjei]

This is an accurate description of how things unfolded between Metrolinx and the Junction Triangle community. Most people in the neighbourhood were fuming mad when Metrolinx came here with a plan to build an elevated guideway. This is a part of town experiencing a renaissance after decades of neglect and crime, so its not hard to understand why people would be upset about a plan that would add to the urban blight already scattered throughout the area. To ease that fear, Metorlinx pitched this project as an opportunity to add value to the neighbourhood. Yes, essential transit infrastructure would be built, but alongside that utility there would be attractive elements that would draw people to visit: a dog park, innovate street furniture, a play area for kids, a street market, beautiful lighting, art, etc.. Based on the most recent renderings, none of what I listed remains. Metrolinx used their empty promises to buy time, get shovels in the ground, and exploit this pandemic to divert attention away from their failures.

I live in this neighbourhood and I am hopeful for a turnaround, but it takes careful stewardship of the resources and relationships we have to get there to make this place great. Metrolinx has proven themselves to be a bad actor and an overall liability to this goal for whatever reason (could be money, could be politic. It is really sad because we don't need to have these sorts of antagonistic relationships built on mutual mistrust. Metrolinx wants to build transit they can be proud of and we want a neighbourhood we can be proud of. These aren't mutually exclusive goals

Yes I'm sure building an elevated transit structure is urban blight. Toronto has lots of lessons to teach other world class cities around the world who don't mind building elevated transit. The rotten hydro poles, patched up sidewalks, pothole filled roads, or third world public realm aren't urban blights but an elevated transit line is.

 

[facepalming_brooklynite]

upset about a plan that would add to the urban blight

...It is really sad because we don't need to have these sorts of antagonistic relationships built on mutual mistrust.

If your assumption is that transit contributes to urban blight, then maybe you are part of the reason why there is mutual mistrust

 

[daniel_kryz]

Elevated transit can contribute to urban blight if it isn't done well. I think that was his argument. For example, it could divide communities, create places that foster crime, be ugly, or make communities unliveable due to its environmental impacts. The question is how to build transit that doesn't do that. The old promises of Metrolinx were about making the community BETTER and creating inviting places for people, along with a beautiful piece of art called SECRET PARK GATE and a high-quality design. What's being proposed now is a huge downgrade.

Doug Ford's government is part of the problem, as they personally ordered Metrolinx to cancel the art as a "waste of money", but spending billions on burying the Eglinton West extension for Dougie's Etobicoke riding definitely isn't a waste of money... especially when they could have built elevated transit there (with good quality, of course). The government is very hypocritical and is prioritizing Conservative parts of the city while neglecting those that voted NDP... which is just disgusting. "They didn't vote for me, why should I care about them?"

A good lesson from the 20th century is that when we build infrastructure, we also have to consider the ordinary people that it would affect and their communal aspirations. This doesn't mean we have to cancel everything in favour of NIMBYs, it means that good design and real dialog with the community matter.

For context, this is what we were promised...

 

[EnviroTO]

Yes I'm sure building an elevated transit structure is urban blight. Toronto has lots of lessons to teach other world class cities around the world who don't mind building elevated transit. The rotten hydro poles, patched up sidewalks, pothole filled roads, or third world public realm aren't urban blights but an elevated transit line is.

No, those things are all urban blight. Not sure what your definition is for a "world class" city and why you don't consider Toronto to be on that list as we are considered an Alpha world city. You name a city and I can point out something that everyone agrees is bad about it and we can say "it's what world class cities do". If ugly elevated structures with no redeeming architectural and artistic qualities are what it takes to be world class, then maybe we should be provincial.

 

[Mrgeosim]

If your assumption is that transit contributes to urban blight, then maybe you are part of the reason why there is mutual mistrust

I am not against the building of the Davenport diamond. I understand the importance of it and the fact that I live in a neighbourhood enclosed by rails. What I am against is Metrolinx promising to improve our neighbourhood as a concession for the project and then reneging on that promise. I was rather excited to see this structure built and the new community amenities installed, but now I'm just upset. I hardly think I count as a NIMBY.

 

[Garuda]

Give it a year or two after the viaduct opens and the space below will become a very popular public space with or without Metrolinx spending money on public art. It’s prime to become a market space just like Borough Market in London.

 

[Undead]

Give it a year or two after the viaduct opens and the space below will become a very popular public space with or without Metrolinx spending money on public art. It’s prime to become a market space just like Borough Market in London.

Hopefully not a refuge for the less fortunate/unhoused...