Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx

[Mrgeosim]

You are either forgetting or wilfully ignoring who funds the project: YOU ARE. you pick. either trim back due to excessive spending during a pandemic or get your beautiful shrubs and trees and get a tax hike when you have to pay for it in the next budget. I for one see that as a no brainer decision for most. Dont forget these concept images came pre-pandemic. As with many pre 2008 recession goodies, many were scaled back due to the shifting realities. GET OVER IT. Also they did not "cancel" anything, but rather scaled back from the concept.
Once you start inserting those false narratives into the statements, it will form the basis of an untruth or over-exaggeration.

"scaling back" is just a euphemism for cancelling, lets not kid ourselves. Also, why should DirectionNorth, myself, or anyone else for that matter "GET OVER IT?" If our lives are impacted by these decisions and the basis for our grievance is a government agency reneging on a promise they made, I don't see a reason why we should "GET OVER IT." I, for one, would like to make use of the channels available for communicating my grievances and tell Metrolinx that the degree to which they deviated from their original plan is too much to be reasonably construed as "scaling back." Furthermore, DirectionNorth is right that other neighborhoods have a basis to distrust Metrolinx when they engage in major project overhauls like this. At the end of the day, Metrolinx is a crown corp and there is a degree of accountability that they have to hear citizens' voices. To your point about government spending, please take a measured look at how much our government is spending and how little it would actually cost to keep their promise for a city building initiative.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

You are either forgetting or wilfully ignoring who funds the project: YOU ARE. you pick. either trim back due to excessive spending during a pandemic or get your beautiful shrubs and trees and get a tax hike when you have to pay for it in the next budget. I for one see that as a no brainer decision for most. Dont forget these concept images came pre-pandemic. As with many pre 2008 recession goodies, many were scaled back due to the shifting realities. GET OVER IT. Also they did not "cancel" anything, but rather scaled back from the concept.
Once you start inserting those false narratives into the statements, it will form the basis of an untruth or over-exaggeration.

Wait, considering the amount of new spend from the current provincial government, "excessive spending" doesn't sound awfully convincing as a justification.

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

"scaling back" is just a euphemism for cancelling, lets not kid ourselves. Also, why should DirectionNorth, myself, or anyone else for that matter "GET OVER IT?" If our lives are impacted by these decisions and the basis for our grievance is a government agency reneging on a promise they made, I don't see a reason why we should "GET OVER IT." I, for one, would like to make use of the channels available for communicating my grievances and tell Metrolinx that the degree to which they deviated from their original plan is too much to be reasonably construed as "scaling back." Furthermore, DirectionNorth is right that other neighborhoods have a basis to distrust Metrolinx when they engage in major project overhauls like this. At the end of the day, Metrolinx is a crown corp and there is a degree of accountability that they have to hear citizens' voices. To your point about government spending, please take a measured look at how much our government is spending and how little it would actually cost to keep their promise for a city building initiative.

Just don't come back complaining then when you're taxes go up and other transit services get cut back in order because you got your beautiful trees under a bridge. Plain fact is, construction costs are going way up, material costs are going way up. Your bread and milk has gone way up.There is inflation in the country right now. It's irritating when we have these fanatics/lobbyists/activists who think they can save the world with utopian ideas but have no concept on how to pay for it or how to implement in it real life. Let's get this infrastructure built now and worry about making it beautiful with all the fancy trees and shrubs afterwards.

 

[cplchanb]

Wait, considering the amount of new spend from the current provincial government, "excessive spending" doesn't sound awfully convincing as a justification.

AoD

Well this is a conservative govt. Their version of excessive spending is nowhere near the big Boys. You can't compare it to the feds. That being said, if I need to find efficiencies anywhere in construction, first thing I'd do is trim back on non critical items such as aesthetics. Will it rile some of the rabid UT fanatics and nimbys.... probably. But if there was a cash crunch, function is definitely over form.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well this is a conservative govt. Their version of excessive spending is nowhere near the big Boys. You can't compare it to the feds. That being said, if I need to find efficiencies anywhere in construction, first thing I'd do is trim back on non critical items such as aesthetics. Will it rile some of the rabid UT fanatics and nimbys.... probably. But if there was a cash crunch, function is definitely over form.

You have got to be kidding me - the amount of capital spending they have committed to pales in comparison to previous governments (and not all of it is justified). Perhaps you need to have a quick read of today's AG report as well.

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

You have got to be kidding me - the amount of capital spending they have committed to pales in comparison to previous governments (and not all of it is justified). Perhaps you need to have a quick read of today's AG report as well.

AoD

The question we should be asking is in the current climate, do we have the money to spend and where should we spend it on. As I mentioned earlier, considering they spent billions to save our lives last year, I'd be happy to trade that off for lesser beauty landscape elements if it meant being reasonable in deficit spending.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The question we should be asking is in the current climate, do we have the money to spend and where should we spend it on. As I mentioned earlier, considering they spent billions to save our lives last year, I'd be happy to trade that off for lesser beauty landscape elements if it meant being reasonable in deficit spending.

You just changed your tact - first you told me the pandemic and budget deficit did it - and when informed that it hadn't and didn't stop massive amount of spending, you shifted it to a matter of "worth". Seriously, this government chose to bury a line when they could have elevated it for purely political reasons, and you are telling me that lesser landscaped elements costing what, 1/100th (I am being generous with that estimate) is a reasonable target because deficit? And get this, the irony of it is that the choice of elevated over community objection was sold in this case precisely because of enhanced public realm.

AoD

 

[Undead]

I do hope Metrolinx realises that the more switcharoos like this that they pull/try and pull - the more that the wider public will lose trust.

I don't think Metrolinx gives a rat's bottom about this. It's more on the province to realize their puppet agency is destroying communities' trust.

either trim back due to excessive spending during a pandemic or get your beautiful shrubs and trees and get a tax hike when you have to pay for it in the next budget.

We're getting one either way

 

[DirectionNorth]

You are either forgetting or wilfully ignoring who funds the project: YOU ARE. you pick. either trim back due to excessive spending during a pandemic or get your beautiful shrubs and trees and get a tax hike when you have to pay for it in the next budget.

We're going to get one anyways. We live in ...

for one see that as a no brainer decision for most. Don't forget these concept images came pre-pandemic. As with many pre 2008 recession goodies, many were scaled back due to the shifting realities. GET OVER IT. Also they did not "cancel" anything, but rather scaled back from the concept.
Once you start inserting those false narratives into the statements, it will form the basis of an untruth or over-exaggeration.

And once your exaggerations (what is an "over exaggeration"?) and untrue strawmans are out, they will be create false narratives.

Just don't come back complaining then when you're taxes go up and other transit services get cut back in order because you got your beautiful trees under a bridge.

Just don't complain when neighborhoods complain about new transit - the surrounding community doesn't get service, if I lived there and got nothing, I would probably complain and oppose future projects as well.

Plain fact is, construction costs are going way up, material costs are going way up. Your bread and milk has gone way up. There is inflation in the country right now. It's irritating when we have these fanatics/lobbyists/activists who think they can save the world with utopian ideas but have no concept on how to pay for it or how to implement in it real life. Let's get this infrastructure built now and worry about making it beautiful with all the fancy trees and shrubs afterwards.

Once you start inserting those false narratives into the statements, it will form the basis of an untruth or over-exaggeration.

Well this is a conservative govt. Their version of excessive spending is nowhere near the big Boys.

I don't think so ...

You can't compare it to the feds. That being said, if I need to find efficiencies anywhere in construction, first thing I'd do is trim back on non critical items such as aesthetics. Will it rile some of the rabid UT fanatics and nimbys.... probably. But if there was a cash crunch, function is definitely over form.

How about things which add billions of dollars in cost, like politics?

The question we should be asking is in the current climate, do we have the money to spend and where should we spend it on.

We seem to be, given that the news just came out that the government overpaid businesses by a billion dollars.

As I mentioned earlier, considering they spent billions to save our lives last year, I'd be happy to trade that off for lesser beauty landscape elements if it meant being reasonable in deficit spending.

How about cutting the billions in tunneling costs (like in the EWLRT?)

I used to think you were a reasonable poster who refrained from strawmans and false comparisons ...

 

[cplchanb]

You just changed your tact - first you told me the pandemic and budget deficit did it - and when informed that it hadn't and didn't stop massive amount of spending, you shifted it to a matter of "worth". Seriously, this government chose to bury a line when they could have elevated it for purely political reasons, and you are telling me that lesser landscaped elements costing what, 1/100th (I am being generous with that estimate) is a reasonable target because deficit? And get this, the irony of it is that the choice of elevated over community objection was sold in this case precisely because of enhanced public realm.

AoD

I think weve totally gone way over what the original grievance is. This all started with one of the members getting salty that the trees and landscapes are not what was shown in the original renders.
My response was they probably cut back due to pandemic spending priorities and the rising cost of construction in the gta in general over the last couple years aka value engineering. This is a common practice in all forms of construction, especially in
large infrastructure and residential projects.

Lets keep it focused on this and not digress into the spending practices of various govts and on decisions made years prior.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I think weve totally gone way over what the original grievance is. This all started with one of the members getting salty that the trees and landscapes are not what was shown in the original renders.
My response was they probably cut back due to pandemic spending priorities and the rising cost of construction in the gta in general over the last couple years aka value engineering. This is a common practice in all forms of construction, especially in
large infrastructure and residential projects.

Lets keep it focused on this and not digress into the spending practices of various govts and on decisions made years prior.

Why not? You're the one claiming loudly that deficit is a thing, I am merely pointing out to you that you don't seem to have an issue with a government spending 100x more to do something that offers zero practical benefits for political reasons but seem to want to nickel and dime minor, prior-committed projects chosen to be delivered in a certain way precisely because it is economically efficient.

I mean unless of course you want to say that burying the line here makes no economic sense but it does where it is politically opportune?

AoD

 

[cplchanb]

Why not? You're the one claiming loudly that deficit is a thing, I am merely pointing out to you that you don't seem to have an issue with a government spending 100x more to do something that offers zero practical benefits for political reasons but seem to want to nickel and dime minor benefits.

AoD

The decision was made to bury pre pandemic and to change now would result in astronomical costs in money and time. landscape on the other hand is easy as it does no affect the fundamental design of the
entire infrastructure as a whole. As I said, Im not arguing for what was done before pandemic, but trying to make sense of the present reality in society. If they need to cut costs, landscape is the more acceptable area to take from as it is mainly aesthetic. Where else would you think it is acceptable? Do you honestly think changing a line to elevated at this stage of the game is going to net us savings?

If you want my position on bury or elevate, I am firmly for the latter. However I do realise and accept that the decision has been made and to continually harp for flip flopping is going to cost us more. You can take
the SSE as an example.

 

[Towered]

Just don't come back complaining then when you're taxes go up and other transit services get cut back in order because you got your beautiful trees under a bridge. Plain fact is, construction costs are going way up, material costs are going way up. Your bread and milk has gone way up.There is inflation in the country right now. It's irritating when we have these fanatics/lobbyists/activists who think they can save the world with utopian ideas but have no concept on how to pay for it or how to implement in it real life. Let's get this infrastructure built now and worry about making it beautiful with all the fancy trees and shrubs afterwards.

Ok.

So, when are we getting tiles on the platform walls at the Sheppard subway stations?

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The decision was made to bury pre pandemic and to change now would result in astronomical costs in money and time. landscape on the other hand is easy as it does no affect the fundamental design of the
entire infrastructure as a whole. As I said, Im not arguing for what was done before pandemic, but trying to make sense of the present reality in society. If they need to cut costs, landscape is the more acceptable area to take from as it is mainly aesthetic. Where else would you think it is acceptable? Do you honestly think changing a line to elevated at this stage of the game is going to net us savings?

If you want my position on bury or elevate, I am firmly for the latter. However I do realise and accept that the decision has been made and to continually harp for flip flopping is going to cost us more. You can take
the SSE as an example.

I don't care about "your point", which is irrelevant to the actual expenditure - I care about the government's point - and any attempt to defend these choices on the basis of provincial finances. FYI the EW tunnelling advance project financial close was this past May, well after the pandemic has started.

Oh and don't forget - the landscaping portion of this project was purposefully seperated piror to the pandemic.

AoD

 

[dullturtle06]

Honestly the design is okay, I wish they kept the large mural on the side of the guideway. It would add so nice art and colour. Thats my biggest grievance