Toronto Garrison Crossing (was Fort York Pedestrian and Cycle Bridge) | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto | Pedelta

[tkip]

Toronto, we need an UPRISING! Egypt or Libya style. If you gave Ford absolute power I bet he'd be worse than Gaddafi. He's already reinforcing his allies in the police force. We need to kick his fat arse to the curb.

Oh, for god's sake, this comparison of Ford to a blood thirsty, mass murdering monster like Gaddafi is pure lunacy.

It's a insult to those that live in those countries and under immensely tougher conditions. Conditions that wimpy, whining cry babies like a few on this board couldn't even begin to understand.

Only in a country like Canada where we have it so good and spoiled beyond belief could someone make these statements.

What's really going on here is that some are sore losers and just can't handle Ford being voted into power. So they call him names, insult his appearance and smear his name to make themselves feel better.

And let's not forget the numerous attempts at discrediting all those who voted for him. It smacked of desperation. Ford is doing exactly what he campaigned on and a hell of lot of people agree with it.

Our democractic system and the voters gave him power. Get over it and stop complaing already.

 

[Tulse]

Ford is doing exactly what he campaigned on and a hell of lot of people agreed with it.

Both of those statements are undeniably true, but still think that what he is doing is a grievous mistake.

In a democracy the minority view isn't required to shut up, or to not try to change the view of the majority.

 

[nfitz]

Oh dear. I actually wanted to hear your point of view since $25 mil for landmark pedestrian bridges was revealed to be the going rate.

I don't think there's been much evidence that that is the going rate - one example doesn't make! How much did the Humber River bridge cost?

And to correct an inaccuracy on your part

Inaccuracy on my part? Why are you being so utterly rude and combative? My gosh, it's no wonder that the right-wing freaks get pissed off by the high-and-mighty attitude of those who push such projects!

You originally referred to the cost as "the elephant in the room" in clear disapproval.

Clear disapproval? There was no disapproval. Simply questions. Why are you pre-judging this? Why do ascribe thoughts and words to me that I have not had or made?

Is the foundation for this project so poor that you'd sooner attack someone asking legitimate questions rather than deal with questions?

You were essentially saying that $23 million pedestrian bridges were unreasonable wastes of money.

I never said anything of the kind. To keep saying I said this, when I've made it clear that I haven't formed an opinion on the subject is ... bizarre.

 

[nfitz]

If you gave Ford absolute power I bet he'd be worse than Gaddafi. He's already reinforcing his allies in the police force.

That's uncalled for and offensive.

 

[adma]

To be honest, and to take the broadest POV (while strategically disregarding the pre-allotted municipal money, investment, pre-planning etc issues which truly make the final decision a dumb one)...I think there's a bit of sensationalism here. After all, one *could* turn the tables, imagine the bridge proposal coming from the Lastman rather than Miller mayoralty, and then imagine the bread-not-circuses crowd attacking it as gravy of another feather.

But what happened is that the bridge proposal had all the correct Torontopian ducks lined up on its behalf: Miller, the Friends Of Fort York crowd, the Spacing crowd, all that artsy/historical/cultural/creative-class intelligentsia. As a result, it became a "build this or die" issue, like all of Toronto's urban survival was hinging upon it.

I mean, I'm sad, too. And it may be a tip of a Ford-era iceberg; but it's only a tip. Let's not over-scream until the egregiousness of the full iceberg comes into view.

Now, to me, what would represent a "full iceberg" decision would be...well, be glad that the NPS renovation got as far as it did by the time Ford Nation could've gotten its hands on it. Because otherwise, we could have seen the project cancelled outright...on behalf of an untutored alternate notion of taking down the walkways and replacing them with *nothing*. Because Mayor Ford solicits and gets letters from Joe & Jane Blow saying "those walkways are freaking ugly and unused, take them down". No symposium, no charrette, nothing...

 

[neubilder]

Hey Ntitz, tpik, Rob Ford behaves like a dictator and uses dirty tactics to get his way. He is blind to critisism and won't consider the views of his opponents (let alone understand them). He was elected by ignorance and anger. Sounds like the start of story with a bad ending, doesn't it?

 

[ducati0000]

"Rob Ford behaves like a dictator"...Huh?...he got support from the members just like Miller...his approval rate is %65 and going up.He was elected to cut programs that the city cant afford...doesnt mean it wont happen but not now.I like the bridge but maybe private investors can fund the project with the promise of naming rights.

 

[Northern Magus]

Inaccuracy on my part? Why are you being so utterly rude and combative? My gosh, it's no wonder that the right-wing freaks get pissed off by the high-and-mighty attitude of those who push such projects!

If you think that pointing out inaccuracies and inconsistencies in your statements or simply having a debate is "utterly rude and combative" then I'd say you're being overly sensitive.

I don't think there's been much evidence that that is the going rate - one example doesn't make!

Three examples actually, including this one. And your response to i42's post is precisely what I've been asking you about for several days now. Yet still no substantive reply? Or how about some contrary evidence? Did i42 get it all wrong?

There was no disapproval. Simply questions. Why are you pre-judging this? Why do ascribe thoughts and words to me that I have not had or made?

Actually none of your statements asked a question. You clearly felt the cost was far, far too much. And you clearly were not in support of this bridge because of it. But if you now want to deny that, so be it. What you wrote is there in black and white.

Is the foundation for this project so poor that you'd sooner attack someone asking legitimate questions rather than deal with questions?

Um, no. None of those posts asked any questions of any kind: they made clear, unambiguous, declarative statements. There's a big difference. And if asking for your views is "attack[ing] someone", then you're really being overly sensitive.

However should you wish to resume the debate, by all means reply to this post.

 

[GraphicMatt]

"Rob Ford behaves like a dictator"...Huh?...he got support from the members just like Miller...his approval rate is %65 and going up.He was elected to cut programs that the city cant afford...doesnt mean it wont happen but not now.I like the bridge but maybe private investors can fund the project with the promise of naming rights.

Ford was elected on a promise of cutting gravy. He promised that there was so much gravy to cut that we wouldn't need to cut services.

There was nothing stopping the city from selling naming rights to this bridge now. It is unlikely the city would be able to get $20 million dollars for naming rights.

The bad precedent this sets is not so much about killing a project -- though that's sad -- but that they essentially killed it at 10 p.m. at night, without even talking to the councillor whose ward the project is in. That's not a good way to conduct business.

 

[Automation Gallery]

I like the bridge but maybe private investors can fund the project with the promise of naming rights.

Plus rumour has it that when all said and done there will be a good sized neighbourhood in that area that includes, 11, 25 and 30 Ordnance Street and 45 Strachan Avenue, We can potentially be looking at 8-12 high/mid-rise towers..I say get these developers to pitch into the construction of the bridge and there you can get more than 1/2 of the 24 million to be paid towards funding the bridge. The City pays upfront and gets the money at a later date from development.
For goodness sake, something has to be done now to get the ball rolling.

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2010/pg/bgrd/backgroundfile-29890.pdf

http://www.onedevelopment.com/30_ordnance.asp

 

[nfitz]

Hey Ntitz, tpik, Rob Ford behaves like a dictator and uses dirty tactics to get his way.

And this gives you the right to call over posters here names? I'd appreciate an apology.

And there's a heck of a difference of being a bit of totalitarian, and the massacring people. How about a bit of perspective?

And do you really think I of all people need a lesson on Rob Ford?

 

[nfitz]

Three examples actually, including this one. And your response to i42's post is precisely what I've been asking you about for several days now. Yet still no substantive reply? Or how about some contrary evidence? Did i42 get it all wrong?

I'm not even sure which post you are referring to. How about writing simple questions that don't require reading back several pages to answer.

And I note, not one person here has even attempted to answer my question? Why doesn't the bridge provide access to the 10 Ordnance Street parkland - and isn't this a design failure? How much did the Humber River pedestrian bridge cost (I think it's over the Humber ... the one near the Lakeshore and Humber River)? Isn't the route not quite as direct as it could be?

Let's discuss the facts here, rather than having a meta-conversation. Generally I'm supportive of this project, but I'm concerned about details - and I'm absolutely shocked that when I start asking a few simple questions, that no one has any answers, and only hostility to asking questions!

 

[GraphicMatt]

The details are entirely irrelevant at this point as the bridge is dead, but it's worth pointing out that any quibbles with the design could have been worked out. There seemed to be very very strong support in the area surrounding the bridge for the plan.

 

[nfitz]

The details are entirely irrelevant at this point as the bridge is dead, but it's worth pointing out that any quibbles with the design could have been worked out.

Dead? As far as I understand it, on April 26th, the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee wouldn't approve the award of the construction contract, and simply asked staff to report back to the Committee on lower cost alternatives. City Council on May 17th refused to take the contract award decision away from the Committee. Presumably then, the bridge is very much alive, awaiting for staff to report back on how to reduce costs.

Has there been something else that happened that I missed? Hard to find the facts here, with all the rhetoric.

 

[Marcanadian]

^^ Metrolinx has given the city a very small window to build the bridge. A redesigned bridge would require new environmental assessments and approval, meaning we won't be seeing a bridge on that spot anytime before 2015. Plus, Councilor Shiner made it quite clear that the land the bridge would sit on is very valuable, so he would like to sell that land to private investors. Condominiums would likely sit on that site.