Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

Mirvish isn't a dummy when it comes to operating cultural institutions, and that leads me to suspect that the museum is going to be much smaller than we're anticipating--something along the lines of a largish podium retail space with maybe a few dozen pieces exhibited at any one time. Indeed, it may end up not being much more than a glorified party room, and could--and most likely would--be rented out by the condo board for private functions on a nightly basis if possible.
 
Mirvish isn't a dummy when it comes to operating cultural institutions, and that leads me to suspect that the museum is going to be much smaller than we're anticipating--something along the lines of a largish podium retail space with maybe a few dozen pieces exhibited at any one time. Indeed, it may end up not being much more than a glorified party room, and could--and most likely would--be rented out by the condo board for private functions on a nightly basis if possible.

If it is to be a glorified party room, then it has to be included as a common element of the related condo corporation. In short, it would belong to the condo corporation and would not be a cultural institution. Mirvish can't push his art collection in there if it belongs to the corporation as there is nothing compelling them to take it or insure it once on the premises. The condo board could go the long route and amend the declaration and rid itself of the glorified party room. But as 400WellingtonGuy noted, the lawyers would make a killing.
 
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the concept in the proposal - but all financial arrangements would be made clear in the condominium's declaration - so yes any potential buyers are given a clear choice to "decide whether" to contribute or not. This is a complex project and no one is forcing anyone to purchase one of the 2,700 proposed units - should the project contain complex long-term financial arrangements or obligations for owners, those proposed arrangements are a risk that the proponent in this early stage of the project appears to be considering bringing forward to the market. The highly competitive Toronto condo market will ultimately evaluate whether or not to accept those financial arrangements and perhaps this is a risk Mr. Mirvish is willing to incorporate into the project based on a long-term value-proposition of the gallery that his team believes the market will accept and absorb.

As noted earlier by AHK, the condominium declaration is a pretty iron-clad legal agreement that is virtually impossible for owners (especially a project as large and investor driven as this) to alter at a future date unless the legislation is substantially overhauled (certainly a risk of that 90% figure declining somewhat but virtually no chance of it declining significantly).

Some additional background on the Ontario Condominium Act - the Act was last updated in 1998, and was proclaimed (came into force) in May of 2001. The Act is currently under review as part of the next update cycle. A community consultation meeting with government and Ministry staff held in Toronto on September 12. The issue of resolving problems with declarations, being virtually impossible with the 90% threshold was raised. I had also previously raised the issue with Rosario Marchese, the MPP who has been most active on condominium issues. This is a real issue, because declarations are documents prepared by humans, and errors have been made. Once a declaration has been registered, it becomes virtually impossible to correct.

The normal practice when new legislation is proclaimed is that it does not have a retroactive effect - examples are that buildings are built to the building code in effect at the time the building permit is issued, not to the code in effect at the time the building is built, and do not need to be then modified to comply with subsequent changes to the code. Same thing with criminal law - one cannot be tried for an act which was not an offense at the time it was committed, even if subsequent legislation makes it illegal.

With respect to the Condominium Act - there are many issues needing to be addressed. During the Q&A part of the meeting my request to Margaret Best (the Minister responsible for the Condominium Act and sponsoring the review process) was that where possible, consideration be given to making provisions of the new act apply to the governance processes of existing condominiums, and not just to new ones created after the new Act's proclamation.

The entire process of revision to the act, updating the regulations, leading to proclamation and the new Act coming into force is going to be a long one - interesting to see how it all evolves, in particular with the current political situation at Queen's Park.
 
Does anyone know how about "good" or extensive Mirvishes' art collection really is? I thought from the initial press that he would be donating his art and that it would be a gallery he would run or some foundation of his and that condo owners would have free access too as well as the public. But if these comments are correct that the condo would be responsible for maintaining this "gallery" it sounds like a scam to me. Plus if the art gallery is designated as some kind of cultural institution would he get a chartable donation tax credit for donating his art? If so this double insult to injury - he gets a tax benefit but shifts the ongoing maintainence costs to the condo owners.

I don't know what condo board in their right mind would take on such a responsiblity. I also wonder if there any legalities doing this. Condos are tax exempt corporations which means they have to satisfiy certain criteria to maintain their tax exempt status. I wonder if running an art gallery would be a disqualifying activity.
 
Does anyone know how about "good" or extensive Mirvishes' art collection really is?

I thnk that anyone who visited the Mirvish Gallery on Markham back in the day (or even its afterlife as Mirvish Books) will attest to its quality.
 
Mirvish isn't a dummy when it comes to operating cultural institutions, and that leads me to suspect that the museum is going to be much smaller than we're anticipating--something along the lines of a largish podium retail space with maybe a few dozen pieces exhibited at any one time. Indeed, it may end up not being much more than a glorified party room, and could--and most likely would--be rented out by the condo board for private functions on a nightly basis if possible.

In the original press release, Mirvish stated that the museum would be 60,000 sq feet and will be operated as a non profit known as the Mirvish Collection. There was no mention of condo fees until his most recent interview. Obviously more details are needed to understand how condo fees would support the museum. Is this a departure from the original plan, or a more detailed explanation as to how the museum will be funded??
 
^I find the museum proposal to be quite unfathomable at this point. The operating costs of a space that large would be in the millions per year. (The Power Plant, at 30,000 sq/ft, operates on 3 million/yr). Spread out among 2500 units still represents a serious chunk of change for a rather inconsequential perk. Mirvish has yet to clarify how exactly this would fly.
 
But if these comments are correct that the condo would be responsible for maintaining this "gallery" it sounds like a scam to me.

As has already been mentioned, a scam to whom? Clearly not the condo purchasers, as they would know about the fee before purchasing. Clearly not the public, who get free access to an art gallery. So...to whom?
 
Potentially to the public - citizens of Toronto and the Condo Owners. A lot more needs to be clarified as to how this is going to work. As someone as pointed out in earlier post these seems potentially a very complex arrangement and I really wonder how many condo buyers would fully appreciate what they're getting into (or how many lawyers)- plus their seems to be alot of unknowns. Developers are notorious for undersestimating maintenance fees. What bothers me is that he is potentially reaping huge tax benefits (depending upon how this structured) while shifting the ongoing costs to a private individuals (condo owners) who may not fully appreciate what they are getting into. Also I feel this is window dressing to distract from the real issue as whether this size of development is appropriate for area. Personally, I don't feel it is though I know the majority on this forum will disagree with me.
 
Also I feel this is window dressing to distract from the real issue as whether this size of development is appropriate for area. Personally, I don't feel it is though I know the majority on this forum will disagree with me.

which part of the city do you think these three towers are appropriate for?
 
If the arbitrary and archaic plan to have Toronto's entire skyline "slope" down from FCP (built more than 35 years ago) plays even a miniscule role in the rejection of this proposal, I will immediately move to Nunavut and begin a life of subsistance hunting.
 
If the arbitrary and archaic plan to have Toronto's entire skyline "slope" down from FCP (built more than 35 years ago) plays even a miniscule role in the rejection of this proposal, I will immediately move to Nunavut and begin a life of subsistance hunting.

I hope city hall doesn't decapitate this building project, there are already enough obvious looking decapitated looking buildings because of city hall already.
 
IMO I don't actually care about the height. It's the 3 buildings squished together that is sad. I would rather one Gehry or 3 scattered around the city instead of this 3 in a line bogus cash grab.
 

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