Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners

For those who believe this isn't the right place, Mirvish could just as easily respond - so find me another place but the gallery and OCAD space are out.

I am convinced there are psychological issues related to Tall Poppy Syndrome here. This proposal is (if executed as planned) is the most exciting project in Toronto history, or top 3. On a par with TD Centre, the only difference being that TD replaced some outstanding buildings, whereas those being replaced here are incredibly ordinary.

I think it would be comical to take a European for a tour of this strip, and gauge their reaction as we describe attempts to preserve structures.
 
ptbotrmpfn said:
i really don't see the big deal with this project being put here. the buildings aren't all that attractive or worth keeping theres plenty around the city that look just like them. keep those ones. this location is a great spot for this project. the buildings preposed are not ugly. and amongst all the rest of Toronto's unique buildings they will fit in just lovely. a city is always transforming its self. just look at Newyork's world trade centre towers. out with the old in with new. and hey will forever change that section. for the better.
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They haven't been restored, only minimally maintained with coats of white paint. If well restored this would be a remarkable and elegant block, similar to King west of Spadina. And the interior spaces are great too. One major tenant of this block is KPMB - architects that would only occupy a good space to work in.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
neubilder:

If the proposal is superlative architecturally and offers a comparable level of amenity to the public, sure. Sorry, that wasn't the case, but nice try with the analogy.

AoD
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So the floodgates will be open, given enough candy coated enticement. Then when the project gets value engineered to barely resemble the original proposal - as inevitably happens (Look at Tiff), the block will already be rubble and the city will be dumbfounded. Suckered zombies.
 
Having recently taken a Canadian citizenship exam, while studying I thought it was interesting to learn that one of the responsibilities of citizenship is this, as noted by the federal government:

"In Canada, rights come with responsibilities. These include: Protecting and enjoying our heritage and environment — Every citizen has a role to play in avoiding waste and pollution while protecting Canada’s natural, cultural and architectural heritage for future generations."

source


Also, more discussion from spacing about these heritage buildings: http://spacingtoronto.ca/2012/10/17...-preservation-and-the-mirvish-gehry-proposal/

"a number of buildings on that block are designated heritage properties. These are designations Mirvish agreed to and City Council has passed resolutions confirming their protection. Mirvish now has to apply to City Council to demolish these buildings. If City Council refuses, he can apply to the Ontario Municipal Board (OMB) to have the decision overturned."
 
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buildup said:
For those who believe this isn't the right place, Mirvish could just as easily respond - so find me another place but the gallery and OCAD space are out.

I am convinced there are psychological issues related to Tall Poppy Syndrome here. This proposal is (if executed as planned) is the most exciting project in Toronto history, or top 3. On a par with TD Centre, the only difference being that TD replaced some outstanding buildings, whereas those being replaced here are incredibly ordinary.

I think it would be comical to take a European for a tour of this strip, and gauge their reaction as we describe attempts to preserve structures.
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Is everybody here brainwashed?! I own a piece of land and I want to build a 10 storey building on it. You won't let me so I say "then find me a piece of land". WTF?
 
neubilder:

So the floodgates will be open, given enough candy coated enticement. Then when the project gets value engineered to barely resemble the original proposal - as inevitably happens (Look at Tiff), the block will already be rubble and the city will be dumbfounded. Suckered zombies.
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Sorry, TIFF was built pretty much as proposed. And sorry, just because we don't share your attitude doesn't mean we're brainwashed - I would suggest that you refrain from that line of attack.

greenleaf:

That citizenship guide definition is most unhelpful - the should's are illustrated in the most general terms that it becomes utterly meaningless. What does all those shoulds actually translate into by action? Reduce pollution = one shouldn't ever drive? Protecting natural heritage means we should never develop on greenfields? Cultural means we should all do can-con 24/7? Architectural means we should preserve every single building without consideration of worth of the original structure and replacement? It's unworkable.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
neubilder:



Sorry, TIFF was built pretty much as proposed.

AoD
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Not at all. The tower itself went through diozens of iterations. In the end it's a dumb box. The Podium started out with volumes pushing and pulling in and out over King street by several metres, animated with interesting spaces. In the end it's a box that varies maybe a metre from the property line.

This is the problem - people can't even recognize this process or the final product.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
greenleaf:

That citizenship guide definition is most unhelpful - the should's are illustrated in the most general terms that it becomes utterly meaningless. What does all those shoulds actually translate into by action? Reduce pollution = one shouldn't ever drive? Protecting natural heritage means we should never develop on greenfields? Cultural means we should all do can-con 24/7? Architectural means we should preserve every single building without consideration of worth of the original structure and replacement? It's unworkable.

AoD
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Yes, it means we should have absolutes. /sarcasm

The point is that we have a responsibility to make sure these buildings, which have the highest preservation designation, are reasonably taken care of. If we allow Gehry to have carte blanche with heritage, why not the fine folks at G&C?
 
i think people are confusing what heritage means. old city hall: heritage.. some random building once being a factory or a place they made clothing and whatnot does not count as a heritage building to me. just saying. those buildings you all want saved are nothing special to look at even if restored. are we gonna save every tim hortons down the road because we all drink the coffee like fish and its a part of our culture. no. will we save the factory that makes thier products. no. just silly to save buildings that are so repeated everywhere. im fear toronto will never grow as it should if people are never looking atthe bigger better brighter future. sad just sad.
 
greenleaf:

Because Gehry isn't G&C (and I don't think anyone would make that comparison)? Or that the buildings on the block, regardless of how high the designation is, is clearly not as worthy as say, Union Station or hell, even Royal Alex? Clearly this is a case that requires more than generalities.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
greenleaf:

Because Gehry isn't G&C (and I don't think anyone would make that comparison)? Or that the buildings on the block, regardless of how high the designation is, is clearly not as worthy as say, Union Station or hell, even Royal Alex? Clearly this is a case that requires more than generalities.

AoD
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This is a very large, exceptional proposal, but I think that means that we need to take exceptional care with it. There is clearly a middle ground to be found, or rather, that must be found.

As I pointed out earlier Mirvish himself saw these buildings worthy of saving and protecting.
 
It boggles the mind that some people believe that this project is not going to get nor should not get special treatment. I am also nearly struck dumb by those that think the buildings Mirvish+Gehry would replace are as important as notable heritage structures in this city. That is plainly and obviously not the case: get one of these Gehry towers completed and few people will still be crying over the loss of the affected brick warehouse. Of course heritage preservation is important when the buildings are significant, but good intentions manifested in extreme ways will only discredit the heritage movement. These banal buildings are footnotes, and for me an easily made sacrifice.
 
Where were all these people when better looking warehouses were being destroyed for lesser replacements.
 
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