Toronto First Parliament Site | ?m | ?s

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Irishmonk said:
Just another small example of the latest great rennaisance of Toronto city-building. Exciting times. Hope to live long enough to see it all through!
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I hope we all do but the problem is not the 'city building' aspect, it's the design and planning choices that seem to be being made by a group of suburban residents. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but ....
 
DSC said:
I hope we all do but the problem is not the 'city building' aspect, it's the design and planning choices that seem to be being made by a group of suburban residents. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but ....
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Admittedly, the vast majority of the residential construction is subpar and will haunt the city for generations, but the bones of a potential future great city are at least being built out. If enough money, power, self importance, and urban pride accumulates over the next half century or so it might tilt future city builders into giving a crap about their city's perception on the world stage.
 
everydayhim said:
this has to be one of the most generous staging areas of any of the Ontario Line station builds, three whole city parcels! am i wrong?
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I am sure you are right but the Province clearly saw a huge 'empty' block that they could expropriate for the work then sell off to one of their developer friends. The City wanted to allow them to use the block but return it to the City afterwards. They said "no".
 
The space needs make sense here as it is the launch shaft location for the TBMs from what I recall.. it's not just the area for a station location. TBM launch locations need more space for construction staging. Metrolinx isn't planning on taking nearly as much land at the other stations which don't have to be the TBM launch locations.

The city's vision for the lands was like a 6-storey apartment building and a whole lot of wasted land for a block directly atop a $10 billion subway line anyway.
 
innsertnamehere said:
The space needs make sense here as it is the launch shaft location for the TBMs from what I recall.. it's not just the area for a station location. TBM launch locations need more space for construction staging. Metrolinx isn't planning on taking nearly as much land at the other stations which don't have to be the TBM launch locations.

The city's vision for the lands was like a 6-storey apartment building and a whole lot of wasted land for a block directly atop a $10 billion subway line anyway.
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There are two blocks involved, the FP Block and the "Staples Block" to its north. The station itself and the launch shaft are on the Staples Block; the FP Block is certainly required for construction activity etc but it will be 'empty' when all is done. You are correct that the City's Heritage Interpretation and Master Plans for the FP site were for the site to contain a new District Library, a heritage interpretation centre of some kind and some residential plus a fairly large open space/park. These Plans were drawn up (over several years) with much public consultation before the Ontario Line was even a twinkle in Doug Ford's eye and I have no doubt that if the City had been allowed to continue to own and plan for the site the City's plans would have been amended to take account of its new location right beside a subway station. See: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2021.EX27.9 and http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2021.EX27.8
 
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DSC said:
There are two blocks involved, the FP Block and the "Staples Block" to its north. The station itself and the launch shaft are on the Staples Block; the FP Block is certainly required for construction activity etc but it will be 'empty' when all is done. You are correct that the City's Heritage Interpretation and Master Plans for the FP site were for the site to contain a new District Library, a heritage interpretation centre of some kind and some residential plus a fairly large open space/park. These Plans were drawn up (over several years) with much public consultation before the Ontario Line was even a twinkle in Doug Ford's eye and I have no doubt that if the City had been allowed to continue to own and plan for the site the City's plans would have been amended to take account of its new location right beside a subway station. See: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2021.EX27.9 and http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2021.EX27.8
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Are you talking about the city that built all of those one storey subway stations along the Eglinton line and the extension of the University line? The city whose Neighbourhoods-first planning policies keep most of the area around the Bloor/Danforth line stations looking like suburbs. The city that complains about how unrealistic it is to try to meet the Province's density targets at high order transit stations? That's the city that was suddenly going realize how mind-numbingly stupid it's been by wasting prime land on subway lines to build structures that belong in the suburbs? I don't mean to be too adversarial or pessimistic, but I would never give the city that much credit. I don't mind the Province running roughshod over the city by forcing density on it, regardless of how many developers end up making money from it (seemingly the worst thing that can happen in the eyes of so many councilors), and if anything I just wish that the Province did so more often (wish that Ford had had the guts to implement everything in that Task Force Report).

Also, re the city's plan for the First Parliament site: the city dragged its feet on that Master Plan for a long time (not putting out reports as per their projected deadlines), and didn't come out with anything until the Province started talking expropriation. I'm not doubting that there are some well meaning and capable individuals working for the city, but as a whole, when it comes to urban planning and meeting the challenges of a housing crisis, the city is a virtually useless body politic/bureaucracy, that's more impediment than means to a solution
 
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formerTorontonian said:
Are you talking about the city that built all of those one storey subway stations along the Eglinton line and the extension of the University line? The city whose Neighbourhoods-first planning policies keep most of the area around the Bloor/Danforth line stations looking like suburbs. The city that complains about how unrealistic it is to try to meet the Province's density targets at high order transit stations? That's the city that was suddenly going realize how mind-numbingly stupid it's been by wasting prime land on subway lines to build structures that belong in the suburbs? I don't mean to be too adversarial or pessimistic, but I would never give the city that much credit. I don't mind the Province running roughshod over the city by forcing density on it, regardless of how many developers end up making money from it (seemingly the worst thing that can happen in the eyes of so many councilors), and if anything I just wish that the Province did so more often (wish that Ford had had the guts to implement everything in that Task Force Report).

Also, re the city's plan for the First Parliament site: the city dragged its feet on that Master Plan for a long time (not putting out reports as per their projected deadlines), and didn't come out with anything until the Province started talking expropriation. I'm not doubting that there are some well meaning and capable individuals working for the city, but as a whole, when it comes to urban planning and meeting the challenges of a housing crisis, the city is a virtually useless body politic/bureaucracy, that's more impediment than means to a solution
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The City's Master Plan for the First Parliament site DID have housing and took into account that the downtown area is 'park deficient' so also had some parkland. There was also public space for a District Library and some sort of 'commemorative centre/area. There was also talk of adding affordable housing on top of the proposed District Library. Housing is certainly important but so is the 'quality of life' and the neighbourhood 'facilities' surrounding it. I agree with you that the City has historically been very poor at adding density over and near subway lines (Bloor/Danforth, we are talking about you!) but in this case there was absolutely NO talk of any kind of subway in this area so it's a bit unrealistic to complain the City plans did not foretell the future.
 
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