S
simply Dan
Guest
At airport, train and subway stations in Europe, escalators are off when not in use. When a person arrives, they set off a sensor, and the escalators begin moving. Simple technology, saves a lot of energy.
|
|
|
U
unimaginative2
Guest
Simply Dan, I just posted the same thing in a different thread! That's quite a coincidence...
It's pretty hard when people want no air pollution, no nuclear power, no dams, and no unsightly windmills. Oh, and the power better be cheap, too.
The problem with a lot of the proposals, especially large-scale wind power downtown, is that it puts a lot of strain on the grid. The wind power also might not be produced when we most need it (i.e. a hot, windless summer day) which would mean blackouts or brownouts anyway.
It's pretty hard when people want no air pollution, no nuclear power, no dams, and no unsightly windmills. Oh, and the power better be cheap, too.
The problem with a lot of the proposals, especially large-scale wind power downtown, is that it puts a lot of strain on the grid. The wind power also might not be produced when we most need it (i.e. a hot, windless summer day) which would mean blackouts or brownouts anyway.
D
dan e 1980
Guest
these blackouts that they speak of, do they cause visual hallucinations?
B
bizorky
Guest
^Hard? I hope people don't get elected and think it will all be easy in office. When a party wants to be a government, they ought to be prepared for to be make difficult choices.
Part of an energy policy that includes conservation is one that requires a concerted effort of public education. I am still waiting to see that.
Holding back on electricity price increases created unrealistic expectations. Not good policy to let that run on for decades.
Delaying the construction of a nuclear reactor station as it was being built did not appear to be too smart or economical.
Allowing Ontario Hydro management to run amok wasn't so smart in retrospect. Nor was making it a place to park old party hacks on their way out to pasture.
Putting off repairs to the grid infrastructure was a recipe for higher costs at a later date.
Breaking up hydro in some half-assed, semi-privatization scheme kind of messed stuff up. Leaving things that way has not helped, either.
Allowing supply to fall to levels that would result in voltage reductions, brown-outs and black-outs seems a little short-sighted.
I believe all three parties floated in and out of power over the course of all the above events, hence my harsh judgement.
Also, I think we are actually still waiting for the government's complete policy to deal with the present potential electrical shortages.
Part of an energy policy that includes conservation is one that requires a concerted effort of public education. I am still waiting to see that.
Holding back on electricity price increases created unrealistic expectations. Not good policy to let that run on for decades.
Delaying the construction of a nuclear reactor station as it was being built did not appear to be too smart or economical.
Allowing Ontario Hydro management to run amok wasn't so smart in retrospect. Nor was making it a place to park old party hacks on their way out to pasture.
Putting off repairs to the grid infrastructure was a recipe for higher costs at a later date.
Breaking up hydro in some half-assed, semi-privatization scheme kind of messed stuff up. Leaving things that way has not helped, either.
Allowing supply to fall to levels that would result in voltage reductions, brown-outs and black-outs seems a little short-sighted.
I believe all three parties floated in and out of power over the course of all the above events, hence my harsh judgement.
Also, I think we are actually still waiting for the government's complete policy to deal with the present potential electrical shortages.
J
JoeyCuppa
Guest
My favourite part of Fletcher's plan is:
Imagine a program that expands the Better Buildings Program (BBP) (which provides loans for energy-efficiency retrofits to commercial and multi-unit residential buildings)... homeowners would get a loan to install solar panels, high efficiency furnaces, "Low E" windows, etc. etc. and the loan is paid back with the money they save on their hydro bills.
The BBP currently even guarantees specific savings, meaning that the loans are paid back easily.
edit: the BBP site mentions something called the The In-House Energy Efficiency Program , which may be what I'm talking about, but I can't find information about it.
Imagine a program that expands the Better Buildings Program (BBP) (which provides loans for energy-efficiency retrofits to commercial and multi-unit residential buildings)... homeowners would get a loan to install solar panels, high efficiency furnaces, "Low E" windows, etc. etc. and the loan is paid back with the money they save on their hydro bills.
The BBP currently even guarantees specific savings, meaning that the loans are paid back easily.
edit: the BBP site mentions something called the The In-House Energy Efficiency Program , which may be what I'm talking about, but I can't find information about it.
N
nstuch
Guest
the simplest way to encourage conservation is to let prices rise to market determined levels and for the government to stop subsidizing residential electricity. The reason Europeans are into conservation is that they pay far higher prices than north americans (especially Ontario).
B
billonlogan
Guest
Artist's rendition of the Portlands Energy Centre available here...
www.portlandsenergycentre...etter5.pdf
www.portlandsenergycentre...etter5.pdf
A
AlvinofDiaspar
Guest
From the Star:
Power plant gets green light
Ontario to move ahead with gas-fired generator
Feb. 10, 2006. 02:38 PM
CANADIAN PRESS
A project to build a natural gas-fired power plant in downtown Toronto has been given the go-ahead by the Ontario government, amid ample criticism that a smaller plant could be built for lower cost if more electricity conservation programs were in place.
Energy Minister Donna Cansfield said the $700-million project — a partnership between Ontario Power Generation and TransCanada Pipelines — will bring 330 megawatts of new power to Toronto by the summer of 2008. A further 220 megawatts can be added by 2010.
It is the same project the government rejected last year. Cansfield said subsequent negotiations with OPG reduced the overall cost.
Cansfield said the Portlands Energy Centre plant will help avoid potential rolling blackouts that industry experts warn could hit Toronto in 2008 without new power sources.
Cansfield said that along with the new plant, the province will introduce 300 MW worth of conservation programs.
Despite those arguing for more conservation and less power generation, Cansfield said conservation alone “cannot guarantee that will meet the city’s urgent power requirements by 2008.â€
“We have had to balance the opportunities to reduce electricity consumption with the pressing need to met Toronto’s growing energy demands,†she told reporters.
Cansfield attached no dollar figure to any provincial conservation plans, though insiders are speculating that cost details will be included in the next provincial budget, expected in March.
But critics say the province should have put conservation programs in place first before approving a massive new power project.
“She’s done it backwards. If we do the conservation first, then we’ll know how much energy we’ll need,†said New Democrat Michael Prue.
Toronto Mayor David Miller and Coun. Paula Fletcher, whose ward covers the area where the plant would be built, are against the provincial plan that could disrupt the city’s hopes of revitalizing its waterfront area.
But Cansfield dismissed an alternate proposal backed by Toronto Hydro and city council for a 300 MW gas-fired plant that could be set up in the former Hearn station, which went out of service in 1989.
Proponents of that plan say that along with 250 MW of conservation programs by Toronto Hydro, the plant would be smaller, less expensive and wouldn’t disrupt the city’s waterfront.
Today’s plan contemplates a brand new facility beside Hearn.
“It’s not a working-together approach, it’s a `we’ll do what we want on your waterfront’ approach and it’s not healthy,†said Fletcher, who warned that she would look at ways of delaying the project.
Many environmental approvals are in place for the project, but not all — leaving open the prospect that city council could stall construction. There is some doubt that a proper assessment has been completed concerning soil contamination on the proposed site, which would be expensive to clean up before a plant can be built.
Delays would compound fears of an energy crisis that the Ontario government is trying to avoid.
The province is trying to make good on its promise to close all of its coal plants by 2009 over pollution concerns, but experts warn those plants — which provide at least a quarter of Ontario’s power — will be needed because replacement power projects are at risk of delay.
“They just don’t have an energy policy or plan. They lurch from crisis to crisis and hope that if you throw enough stuff at the wall, something is going to stick,†said Conservative energy critic John Yakabuski.
Plans are already in the works for a 280 MW natural gas-fired power plant in Mississauga, west of Toronto, known as Greenfield South. Residents have tried to block that project, saying it will be located too close to many homes.
Cansfield said she’d further discuss the province’s plans for Toronto with Miller and other local officials.
“I make the assumption that the mayor would like to keep the lights on in the city, the same as I would like to keep the lights on the city,†she said.
_________________________________________________
Instead of focusing on the building of the power plant, they should be dealing with greening the power plant instead - how will it fit into the plan for redeveloping the waterfront; how will it provide energy efficiencies (district heating) for the area, etc.
AoD
Power plant gets green light
Ontario to move ahead with gas-fired generator
Feb. 10, 2006. 02:38 PM
CANADIAN PRESS
A project to build a natural gas-fired power plant in downtown Toronto has been given the go-ahead by the Ontario government, amid ample criticism that a smaller plant could be built for lower cost if more electricity conservation programs were in place.
Energy Minister Donna Cansfield said the $700-million project — a partnership between Ontario Power Generation and TransCanada Pipelines — will bring 330 megawatts of new power to Toronto by the summer of 2008. A further 220 megawatts can be added by 2010.
It is the same project the government rejected last year. Cansfield said subsequent negotiations with OPG reduced the overall cost.
Cansfield said the Portlands Energy Centre plant will help avoid potential rolling blackouts that industry experts warn could hit Toronto in 2008 without new power sources.
Cansfield said that along with the new plant, the province will introduce 300 MW worth of conservation programs.
Despite those arguing for more conservation and less power generation, Cansfield said conservation alone “cannot guarantee that will meet the city’s urgent power requirements by 2008.â€
“We have had to balance the opportunities to reduce electricity consumption with the pressing need to met Toronto’s growing energy demands,†she told reporters.
Cansfield attached no dollar figure to any provincial conservation plans, though insiders are speculating that cost details will be included in the next provincial budget, expected in March.
But critics say the province should have put conservation programs in place first before approving a massive new power project.
“She’s done it backwards. If we do the conservation first, then we’ll know how much energy we’ll need,†said New Democrat Michael Prue.
Toronto Mayor David Miller and Coun. Paula Fletcher, whose ward covers the area where the plant would be built, are against the provincial plan that could disrupt the city’s hopes of revitalizing its waterfront area.
But Cansfield dismissed an alternate proposal backed by Toronto Hydro and city council for a 300 MW gas-fired plant that could be set up in the former Hearn station, which went out of service in 1989.
Proponents of that plan say that along with 250 MW of conservation programs by Toronto Hydro, the plant would be smaller, less expensive and wouldn’t disrupt the city’s waterfront.
Today’s plan contemplates a brand new facility beside Hearn.
“It’s not a working-together approach, it’s a `we’ll do what we want on your waterfront’ approach and it’s not healthy,†said Fletcher, who warned that she would look at ways of delaying the project.
Many environmental approvals are in place for the project, but not all — leaving open the prospect that city council could stall construction. There is some doubt that a proper assessment has been completed concerning soil contamination on the proposed site, which would be expensive to clean up before a plant can be built.
Delays would compound fears of an energy crisis that the Ontario government is trying to avoid.
The province is trying to make good on its promise to close all of its coal plants by 2009 over pollution concerns, but experts warn those plants — which provide at least a quarter of Ontario’s power — will be needed because replacement power projects are at risk of delay.
“They just don’t have an energy policy or plan. They lurch from crisis to crisis and hope that if you throw enough stuff at the wall, something is going to stick,†said Conservative energy critic John Yakabuski.
Plans are already in the works for a 280 MW natural gas-fired power plant in Mississauga, west of Toronto, known as Greenfield South. Residents have tried to block that project, saying it will be located too close to many homes.
Cansfield said she’d further discuss the province’s plans for Toronto with Miller and other local officials.
“I make the assumption that the mayor would like to keep the lights on in the city, the same as I would like to keep the lights on the city,†she said.
_________________________________________________
Instead of focusing on the building of the power plant, they should be dealing with greening the power plant instead - how will it fit into the plan for redeveloping the waterfront; how will it provide energy efficiencies (district heating) for the area, etc.
AoD
B
billonlogan
Guest
This is the 2nd multi million dollar investment on the waterfront bringing employment and economic benefits to the city and The Mayor opposes it. What has The Mayor done recently to encourage economic development on the waterfront?
E
EnviroTO
Guest
I don't think the powerplant will be a big revenue or job generator for the city. I doubt that the power plant even has to pay property tax although I'm not entirely sure. I know the port doesn't have to. There aren't too many jobs in a powerplant. The news about Citibank choosing to locate in Mississauga probably represents a greater number of jobs and perhaps if the business property tax (both city and provincial (education) portions) were more balanced with the 905 Citibank could have found it affordable enough to locate within the city limits. The power plant is no benefit to the waterfront and would be better located next to the four stacks in south Mississauga or out on Copperfield Rd rather than next to the future Lake Ontario National Park and a future residential area.
D
dan e 1980
Guest
are the existing transmission lines still capable of of being live again?
B
billonlogan
Guest
Sure, right after they finish construction on the new student centre at The United Nations University of Peace (UPeace). Better yet, use the space available at the now defunct International Marine Terminal over by Cherry Beach. Imagine the conversations while sipping your favourite ale on the watersedge patio at the campus pub.
E
EnviroTO
Guest
Nice attitude. Maybe we should set up a money making garbage dump on the waterfront just because the realization of the plan isn't going fast enough for you.
Cherry Beach Revitalization - Complete
York Quay Revitalization - Complete
Port Union Waterfront - Under construction
John Quay Revitalization - Under construction
Maple Leaf Quay (HtO park) - Under construction
Dragonboat Race Course - Under construction
West Don Lands Neighbourhood - Under construction
Union Station Platform - On hold. Perhaps due to Union Station lease delays.
Mimico Waterfront Linear Park - Planning complete, construction start this year
East Bayfront - Planning complete, construction on Sherbourne Park 2007 (perhaps earlier depending on approvals and tendering)
Commissioners Park - Initial design complete, land transfer planning to start.
Lower Don Re-naturalization - Planning underway.
University of Peace Campus - Planning underway
Port Lands - General strategy complete, detailed plans to begin.
Front Street Extension - Long term delay... maybe never.
It may have taken a lot of talk to get to this point but the projects have started and I see little need to be so defeatist and negative at this point.
Cherry Beach Revitalization - Complete
York Quay Revitalization - Complete
Port Union Waterfront - Under construction
John Quay Revitalization - Under construction
Maple Leaf Quay (HtO park) - Under construction
Dragonboat Race Course - Under construction
West Don Lands Neighbourhood - Under construction
Union Station Platform - On hold. Perhaps due to Union Station lease delays.
Mimico Waterfront Linear Park - Planning complete, construction start this year
East Bayfront - Planning complete, construction on Sherbourne Park 2007 (perhaps earlier depending on approvals and tendering)
Commissioners Park - Initial design complete, land transfer planning to start.
Lower Don Re-naturalization - Planning underway.
University of Peace Campus - Planning underway
Port Lands - General strategy complete, detailed plans to begin.
Front Street Extension - Long term delay... maybe never.
It may have taken a lot of talk to get to this point but the projects have started and I see little need to be so defeatist and negative at this point.
E
EnviroTO
Guest
By the way a temporary class location for initial phase University for Peace courses will exist in January 2007.
www.upeace.org/programmes/PE.cfm
www.upeace.org/programmes/PE.cfm
B
billonlogan
Guest
There's always room for a cynic, but I am realist. Who do you suppose is going to foot the bill for all these projects?