Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Have you seen all the WholeFood and T&T that are opening up throughout the GTA? I haven't noticed many new Metro store opening lately.
If you look at the demographic in the Yonge-Sheppard area,... about half are Asian. How can Metro possibly better serve this Asian market than a T&T? Most of the local Asians live in the condos where space is limited and their cultural diet includes fresh food that are usually brought every other day,... so it's frequent small shopping trips for green grocery. And since many of them are busy young professionals,... they also want the convenience of ready-made Asian take out food. And let's face it,... all the ready-made take out food at Metro (BBQ chicken, pizza, etc,...) tends to be quite plain and tasteless.
The few Asian grocery stores in the Yonge&Sheppard area tends to be small mom&pop Korean stores,... thus many of the local Asian go out of the area to do their grocery shopping,... and their other shopping as well. How is a Metro going to change this??? As compared to what a T&T could have done?
Metro generally caters to a more non-Asian demographic,... and now they'll have to navigate through a ground level full of small Pacific Mall type Asian stores to get to the Metro on the second floor of EmeraldPark. Its great that Metro is open 24 hours,... but a Metro on the second floor means customers will have to navigate through a ground level floor full of closed stores after hours.
For people at Yonge & Sheppard, there's currently a:
- Metro 2km west at Sheppard & Bathurst
- Metro 1.5km north at Yonge & Church (between Empress & Finch)
- Loblaws 1km north at Yonge & Empress (EmpressWalk)
- Loblaws 2km east at Sheppard & Bayview (Bayview Village)
- Loblaws 3 km south at Yonge Street & Yonge Blvd (between YorkMills/Wilson and Lawrence)
- Metro 2.5km south-east at YorkMills & Bayview
- Metro 4km south at Yonge & Lawrence
For years, actually decades,... we had a Metro/Dominion/Miracle right across Yonge Street at the south-east corner of Yonge&Sheppard (where Tridel is now building HullmarkCentre),... and it was generally deserted,... maybe 2-3 cashier open out of a possible 12-15 or so. And after the Miracle strike that lasted a few of months,... people found other place to do their grocery shopping,... and never returned.
Now Metro has been out of the area for years,... and they expect people to return? Tridel's HullmarkCentre is getting a WholeFood,... SheppardCentre mall is being redesigned by RioCan and they plan on having at least 1 or 2 large anchor tenant,.... and what if it's a Walmart?,... or another supermarket? If so, that'll mean 3 large supermarkets basically right at the 4 corner of Yonge & Sheppard. How can a second floor Metro compete? Even when Metro/Dominion/Miracle was the only supermarket in the Yonge&Sheppard area years ago,... they were basically deserted,... you could usually count the number of customers in the store on your hands.
And as you know,... it's location, Location, LOCATION! Out of the 3: Sheppard Centre, Tridel Hullmark Centre and EmeraldPark,.... EmeraldPark has the worst location,... because it's furthest from the corner of Yonge & Sheppard,.. its actually a block south of Yonge & Sheppard,... and on the west side,... and it's perpendicular to Yonge. Just walk around the Yonge & Sheppard area,...you'll notice that the vast majority of the high density residential condos and apartment buildings are on the East Side of Yonge,... and thus the east side of Yonge gets more pedestrian traffic,.. thus Tridel Hullmark Centre and Sheppard Centre will benefit from pedestrian traffic more.
Notice how the retail levels of Sheppard Centre and Tridel Hullmark Centre run north-south parallel to Yonge Street,... so pedestrians walking on Yonge Street are more inclined to walk into Hullmark Centre,.... similarly the retail layout of EatonCentre runs parallel to Yonge Street between Dundas and Queen,... it attract pedestrian traffic along Yonge Street to walk into the Eaton Centre. The retail layout of EmeraldPark runs east-west and thus perpendicular to Yonge Street,... that will only attract pedestrian walking along Poyntz,... from the Subway to the single unit houses in West Lansing where there's no high density condos. The retail layout of North York City Centre also runs east-west and thus perpendicular to Yonge Street as well,... and look how poorly that the retail mall performs there,... the entire lower concourse level is basically full of empty retail space that's been looking for tenants for not years,.. but decades!!! About 80% of the retail lower concourse retail space is currently empty! And North York City Centre have 2 office towers, one hotel tower and a huge reference library directly above them generating a constant flow of people. There's only a few stores still on that lower level,... and they're all very close to the subway entrance and Yonge Street. One of the tricks that North York City Centre did was place the food court on the lower level at the west end furthest from Yonge Street,... thinking that would make generate more foot traffic throughout the lower concourse level. How did that work out? That former lower level food court area was deserted for years,... and has been recently relocated to the upper concourse level in the middle of the North York City Centre. And why is this relevant? EmeraldPark is doing the exact same thing,... locating its food court in the lower level at the very west end furthest from Yonge Street,... thinking that would make generate more foot traffic throughout the lower retail level. And at Yonge & Sheppard there will be even more options for other food courts!
All these reasons, are why EmeraldPark needs a strong anchor like T&T that can draw in a customer base that's not serviced in this area.
One of the main problems with Metro is image,... Metro/Dominion/Miracle,... was my parent's grocery store, decades ago,... that's the grocery store our parents dragged us to when we were kids,... and we were bored out of our minds! Hey, let's go and buy an Oldsmobile too! Metro has to change it's image to serve the younger generation of shoppers in the Yonge&Sheppard area.
Wow,... a newbie poster digging up one of my post from last year. Last time I dealt with a first time poster on this forum,... I got burned,... by FlyOnTheWall (post# 872) who informed us T&T-Loblaws bailed and was being replaced by Metro. I really hope I get burned this time as well,... because I actually live in the area,... I hope Metro and the retail levels at EmeraldPark succeed,.... but I really doubt it'll will. Why? EmeraldPark is the worst of the 3 locations,... the east-west layout of the retail levels is perpendicular to Yonge Street,... it's on the lowest density side of Yonge Street,... a Metro on second level and a bunch of small mom&pops Asian stores on first level doesn't compliment each other. Eventually the value of the first floor retail space will become so low,... that it'll be full of flea market type stores.
Anyways,... with EmeraldPark,... lots of great promises as usual,... but lets see the delivery. Let's face it,... delivery at previous projects have been much less than what was promised,... so let's not get expectations up too high,... better to set the bar low,... really low.
Scudder
New Member
Great comments. Thanks! I was involved with Whole Foods and completely understand their stores. T&T of course is completely different and your comments for the most part are spot on!!
So what the hell am I talking about?
Metro Quebec is run much better than Ontario. The Companies MGMT here are failing miserablly and in need of a complete shake up thus the reputation they have garnered. This division is about to under go a complete overhaul similar to what Loblaw has been implementing themselves over the past 10 years. The new format which is in its final stages of development is that transformation and that is what will open at Emarald Patk. A regular Ontario Metro store would be a major disappointment but so would a Loblaw or Sobeys. T&T was perfect because of its ability to cater to the Asian market. Remember that is Loblaw supplying it and no different than Metro supplying a store. It's a matter of having the right mix of products for that location and that is the main focus of the new format to be released. A state of the art store with a product selection everybody can enjoy And more. That will be the new Metro. They are the leader at execution and this has been in the works for 5 years.
This store will be the envy of the competition. They know what to do and with the right people in place we should see an impressive Metro.
So what the hell am I talking about?
Metro Quebec is run much better than Ontario. The Companies MGMT here are failing miserablly and in need of a complete shake up thus the reputation they have garnered. This division is about to under go a complete overhaul similar to what Loblaw has been implementing themselves over the past 10 years. The new format which is in its final stages of development is that transformation and that is what will open at Emarald Patk. A regular Ontario Metro store would be a major disappointment but so would a Loblaw or Sobeys. T&T was perfect because of its ability to cater to the Asian market. Remember that is Loblaw supplying it and no different than Metro supplying a store. It's a matter of having the right mix of products for that location and that is the main focus of the new format to be released. A state of the art store with a product selection everybody can enjoy And more. That will be the new Metro. They are the leader at execution and this has been in the works for 5 years.
This store will be the envy of the competition. They know what to do and with the right people in place we should see an impressive Metro.
Scudder
New Member
http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/Adonis+opens+urban+format+downtown+store/8756612/story.html
The Ontario expansion will begin in a year but will be Metros. Not Adonis. 4 are now slated to open.
The Ontario expansion will begin in a year but will be Metros. Not Adonis. 4 are now slated to open.
NorthYorkEd
Active Member
Of all the projects currently underway in this area, the Emerald Park project is the only one that, for me, just has something "off" about it. I think you've made a lot of great points in this post, and I understand more clearly why I don't feel overly enthused about it.
Thanos
Active Member
Listen, i love Adonis but not for the price they charge and as stated i'm a little po'd when i found out about their false advertising (nobody comes in between me and my kalamata olives). As for Metro Quebec, well......hell no, they still have a long way before they can compete with IGA (Sobeys) and heck even Maxi (Loblaws). I've covered them in the past and by no means is their management top of the class.
T&T is a far better choice here. I've seen the asian cuisine selection Metro has and if i were a betting me i would say this location will be a failure. As for Adonis, when Metro bought half, that will be remembered as the decline of the Adonis brand.
Suiseiseki
New Member
I call BS on that.
The previous Metro on the southeast corner of Yonge/Sheppard was often empty when it was open.
Given the asian population around Yonge/Sheppard, T&T would have been wildly successful here. Have you ever been to a T&T on a Friday or Saturday night? All of them are madhouses.
With Metro at Emerald Park and Whole Foods at Hullmark... both of them are expensive grocery stores that won't appeal to the cash strapped residents of the area.
taal
Senior Member
But since when is T&T cheap ! Its not !
Pips
New Member
Why do I keep reading about how "cash strapped" we all are around here? I'm financially secure, there is a house for sale on Spring Gardens for $2.5 million and I don't see all these poor people. What am I missing?
Uworld
New Member
If this area is impoverished I'm not sure what you would call any area other than Rosedale, Forest Hill etc. Most newer houses go for well over 2 million with older ones around 1 million. The condos are cheaper but still sell for around $350-500 per square foot depending on building age. The people aren't mega rich but I'm sure most can afford to shop at a slightly higher end grocery store.
drum118
Superstar
Aug 8
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Thanks drum118, those are going to be some slim towers
drum118
Superstar
Thanks drum118, those are going to be some slim towers
Only size 16 or less will be able to live here. :}
Scudder
New Member
Now lets keep in mind Metro holds the #1 share in Quebec and #2 in Ontario. The consistently show stable profit growth and sales growth. They are known to have the most well equipped Management in the business and are the most likely to succeed in this highly competitive market.
Their new stores are superior to Loblaw and Sobey. Those are facts so the question now is what will this new format offer? My guess is a mixture of the best of all Chains. Remember the previous Metro was an old outdated A&P and just received a minor facelift and sign change upon purchase. No investment as the lease was near the end. The new store will likely exceed everyone's expectations. Time will tell but keep in mind when these guys launch something it rarely fails. They know what their doing and how to execute. Most investors look to Metro for a reason. They are most compared to Publix in the states for performance.
When this new format launches it will be swift and well executed.
I really believe they are the right choice location and all.
Their new stores are superior to Loblaw and Sobey. Those are facts so the question now is what will this new format offer? My guess is a mixture of the best of all Chains. Remember the previous Metro was an old outdated A&P and just received a minor facelift and sign change upon purchase. No investment as the lease was near the end. The new store will likely exceed everyone's expectations. Time will tell but keep in mind when these guys launch something it rarely fails. They know what their doing and how to execute. Most investors look to Metro for a reason. They are most compared to Publix in the states for performance.
When this new format launches it will be swift and well executed.
I really believe they are the right choice location and all.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Yes, it was supposed to be Loblaw's supplying the T&T,... but since Metro is now taking over EmeraldPark,... it's not like Metro will now supply another full scale Asian supermarket at EmeraldPark.
And even if this one Metro store at EmeraldPark were to focus on selling Asian food,.. they can't do it well,... look at the current Asian Food Metro sells,... it's not real Asian food,... it's mostly Chop Suey stuff,... Asian food for non-Asian folks! No self respecting Asian would cook this Chop-Suey food. Chop-Suey are "Asian food" for non-Asians,... just like Fortune cookies,... Go to Asia and ask for Chop-Suey or Fortune cookie and they'll have no idea what you're talking about!
In addition,... there's no way Metro can generate the economies of scale that T&T gets on specialized Asian food, the real authentic Asian food. Thus Metro would never be able to sell specialized Asian food as inexpensive as T&T does,... and even then T&T is generally considered the Loblaw's of Asian supermarkets (even before Loblaw's acquired T&T),... because T&T prices are generally more expensive compared to other Asian supermarket (industry with razor thin margins). And given how notorious Asians are for paying as less as possible for anything they buy,.... why do Asians like T&T so much? Even though T&T is usually more expensive,... T&T is very clean compared to most other Asian supermarkets,... and have a large selection of ready made food. When they go to T&T,... they know that little black bean they're eating,... really is black bean and not something nasty!
Yes, having the right mix of products to fit the customer groups at that location is a priority,... but that's where Metro usually fails miserably with their one-size-fit-all approach. Loblaw's does a much better job of getting the right product mix for the location,... the Loblaw's at EmpressWalk carries more authentic Asian snacks, food and vegetables than other Loblaws.
In order for Metro to get similar economies of scale on Asian food that T&T gets,... Metro would need to acquire an Asian supermarket chain.
While it seems like I'm crying over spilled milk,... of T&T the Chinese supermarket,... that's mainly because most of the stores for the first floors are Chinese like Pacific Mall style. Anyways, we must remember demographically in North York City Centre,... there are 3 large ethnic demographic that are currently under-served by the local supermarkets,... Chinese, Korean and Persians. How can a Metro,... even a new format Metro serve all three? And now you're talking about a new urban format Metro that correct me if I'm wrong here,... smaller than a traditional Metro store.
For your ready made food,... make sure it's prepared onsite in-house. The bake goods and ready made food at the T&T at Warden & Steeles is great,... but the T&T bake stuff they sell at Loblaws and even the T&T at PromanadeMall tends to be lacking,.. it seems that these bake items are baked in a factory,... whereas the T&T bake goods at the Warden & Steeles store are baked on-site. Ready-made-food that's been sitting around for awhile and have travelled halfway across town usually looses its freshness.