Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli

[NorthYorkEd]

And then there are the condo renters who rent a condo from a condo investor,... these condo renters usually don`t have enough asset or income to qualify to buy their own condo,... thus they rent.

Not in our case. We sold our property in Halifax for a considerable profit and invested the cash. We rent because we are new to the city and wanted to get a better lay of the land before committing to a purchase, and we also think the market right now is overpriced and that a correction is due.

Even if there is not a correction, our rental costs are still substantially lower than carrying the same property on a mortgage, and we are able to save extra each month. That is, the extra we aren't spending on shows, fine foods, and other things this city has to offer, of course...

Those rich areas don't have Dollarama stores,... areas that have Dollarama stores are poor area,.. err, I mean,... area with lower monthly disposible income (ie "Cash Strapped"). Case in point, the Dollarama in Sheppard Centre opened about 3 years ago,... and Dollarama is one of the busiest stores in SheppardCentre. A much larger Dollarama opened in EmpressWalk last year,.... and its now quite busy as well. These two Dollarama stores (SheppardCentre & EmpressWalk) are only 1km away from each other,... probably the shortest distance between two Dollarama stores anywhere!

Yeah,... we need a Walmart in SheppardCentre! Walmart is great for "Cash Strapped" people!

I agree that many truly wealthy people do not need or want to shop at a Dollarama. But smart wealthy people still like to save a buck, at least the ones who don't feel the need to waste money or impress strangers. I don't need to shop at Dollarama, but it is convenient for certain items. A quick example would be a bottle of G2 fruit punch, a once-in-a-while treat after working out. I can easily afford the $2.50 or so Shoppers Drug Mart or Loblaw's charges, but the same thing is a buck at Dollarama.

I'm no fan of Dollarama or Walmart, but I am a fan of saving money.

 

[isaidso]

Lol. I don't work for them or anyone else in the business. Simply an investor and they have fantastic return compared to Loblaw. I really respect the Management and did much research before making a commitment. I guess you might say I put my money where my mouth is. They have only been in Ontario for 8 years and have accomplished plenty. See earnings. Just be patient and they will impress you more than any other competitor!

I don't want to steer the discussion to far off EPC, but doing better than Loblaws shares isn't much of an accomplishment. Btw, if Metro management are so astute, how did Sobeys manage to scoop up Safeway Canada right from under their noses? Metro is now a distant 3rd in Canada due to being 'asleep at the wheel'.

Hopefully that question will get asked at the next Metro shareholders' meeting.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

T&T may have better product selection for Asian cuisine than Metro, but that's not the point, and really this angst is misdirected. The 2nd Floor of Emerald Park is just another condo being sold to the highest bidder. I'm sure the developer doesn't really care who buys it. Maybe some "pacific mall" type stores on the 1st level "got screwed" if they believed T&T was on the 2nd floor, but there's no evidence of this.

So the real question is if this market was going to be a GOLD MINE for T&T, then why did they give it up? Just for construction delays? That doesn't add up.

I completely reject the notion of this area being majority cash-strapped. Whole Foods / Loblaws / Metro / Starbucks aren't stupid. Bayview Village is a top performing mall in the country in sales/SF and is in a position to land high-end retailers and part of its appeal is because it isn't a zoo. Seems to me there's enough well off people to support all these places.

Have you ever even been to a T&T supermarket?

T&T and other retailers were originally promised that their stores at EmeraldPark would be completed by November 2013,... 3 months from now! Obviously, that's not going to happen. The latest contract says sometimes in 2015. Which is far off from the original promised completion date of 2011. As for why Lowblaw's T&T really left EmeraldPark,... I could only speculate,... but how much faith would you put in a developer that constantly delays the delivery date,... has a reputation for over-promising and under-delivering (aka Crystal-Blu and 1 Bloor East for which they couldn't get financing). Anyways,... after being jerked around by this developer so many times,... there comes a point where enough is enough.

T&T is a large anchor,... anywhere it goes it will be successful,... whether the T&T goes in an Asian area or a non-Asian Mall like PromenadeMall (Bathurst & Centre) or a deserted shipping port area on Cherry Street! Look at PromenadeMall at Bathurst and Centre in Thornhill/Vaughan,... it's been a dead mall for decades,... very poorly placed with no highway (most successful regional malls need a highway connection: SquareOne, Yorkdale, Fairview, ScarboroughTownCentre, PickeringTownCentre, Markville, SherwayGarden, VaughanMills, etc,... EatonCentre has no highway but it has 2 subway stations to bring in customers). The idea of PromenadeMall was to build a large regional mall and have the community grow around it,... but as the community grew, there were new shopping options, namely the cluster of big box stores along Highway 7 between Jane and Weston,... and then VaughanMills opened. So PromenadeMall became a dead mall,... in a predominately Jewish and Italian area,... but yet, once T&T opened, business at PromenadeMall started to pick up and they`ve renovated the entire mall. T&T served as a major anchor tenent bringing in Asian shoppers from a larger catchment area,...

Look around Yonge-Sheppard area,... there's a large local Asian population... and most of them currently shop for their Asian grocery outside of the area! Go to the Sheppard-Yonge subway station and look at the people on the platform getting on and off the subways,... again a large Asian demographic,... Look at the people switching between the two subway lines,... again a large Asian demographic,... In addition, look at the ones that stay on the subway train as it passes by,... again, a large Asian demographic,... Now imagine if there was a T&T at EmeraldPark with direct subway connection,... all those TTC subway customers changing between subway lines or just passing by,... with Metropass can freely leave and re-enter the TTC system to do their grocery shopping at T&T,... on their way home.

That said,... condos in North York City Centre pops up like weeds,... a new condo tower opens up every 3-4 months in North York City Centre,... there will be other opportunities for T&T to come into the area,... Besides new condo buildings with retail podium,.... then there is redevelopment of existing retail space like what Rio-Can is currently in the process of doing at Sheppard Centre,.... plus the vast retail space that is available (about 75-80%) in the lower concourse level of North York City Centre,...


BTW,... both Dollarama stores at EmpressWalk and SheppardCentre are still open,... so rest assure, there's a good local supply of G2 drink for only $1

 

[uptownto]

Sunnyray: you don't need to convince me of anything. You should spend your energy convincing T&T/Loblaws instead.

Like you said, we can only speculate on the reason T&T left. And let's be clear, it was THEIR decision to leave. The construction delays only served as an "out" clause so that Loblaws can rip up their purchase contract without losing money or getting sued. If it was simply because of the delays then they should have had a Plan B in place if they wanted to remain in the neighbourhood and only terminate after finding a suitable replacement. As it stands, Metro at Emerald Park will open long before any opportunities for a new T&T store in this neck of the woods comes up again (unless they go for the vacant low visible basement space at North York City Centre Mall which by now they should have claimed).

So this tells me it's not so much Emerald Park itself that was the problem, but that Loblaws T&T had a change in heart/strategy/something about the whole area and that this ship has sailed for Yonge/Sheppard.

And it's kind of pointless to heap scorn on Metro who have presumably done their own research and who think they can make a go of it in what's going to be a competitive area for grocers. I can't think of any other pocket in Toronto with so many large market grocers so close together. Who's going to win from all this competition? Hopefully consumers (i.e. a win for the neighbourhood).

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Competition?,... really, what competition?? Seriously??? There is NO competition among the big supermarket chains,... all their prices are set by their head office,... the same jug of milk will cost the same at every single Metro across Canada,.... thus, at the EmeraldPark Metro with "so many large market grocers so close together", you will still pay the same for that jug of milk as if you were in a small town Metro that is the only supermarket in town.

Go to Yonge & College-Carlton... Metro in lower level of CollegePark, Sobey in upper level closer to Bay Street,... and there`s a flagship Loblaws at Carlton (College) & Church,... that's 3 large supermarket so close together,... with "so many large market grocers so close together",... do you see any of them slashing their prices to fight for local customers? No, all their prices are set by head office and is the same at all their other stores across Canada.

The only advantage to the consumer is that they have more local choices as to where to shop,... but let me ask you,... do you want Pepsi or Coke,.... but what if you are the type that do not want pop,... you are the type that want Green Tea,... as in Asian Green Tea. Well, then you will have to go half way across town to find the Asian Green Tea that you like.


Let's use a time machine,... there used to be THREE large supermarkets here at Yonge&Sheppard,... in the mid-1970s! Miracle at south-east corner of Yonge & Sheppard, Loblaws at north-east corner of Yonge & SpringGarden, and Dominion the lower level of the brand new SheppardCentre when it first opened in 1976.

Why might this be relevant today,... well, just like Loblaw`s T&T was supposed to be the original anchor tenant at EmeraldPark,... back in 1976 when SheppardCentre opened, Loblaws was supposed to be the original anchor tenant in the lower level,... but they decided to stay at their Yonge&SpringGarden location. So Dominion opened up in the lower level of SheppardCentre,... how long did that Dominion last,.... Only ONE year! Why,... not enough customers,... it was a terrible location! SheppardCentre does NOT have any street level parking lot,... the current parking entrance for SheppardCentre is on Doris south of GreenField, near the apartment buildings!

Whereas, the Miracle and Loblaws had street level parking lots highly visible from Yonge Street.

Oh,... EmeraldPark won't have visible street level parking lot either,.. but then either will HullmarkCentre nor does SheppardCentre,... so none would have a clear advantage this time. Then it comes down to location, Location, LOCATION,... and as I stated before EmeraldPark has the worst location of the 3,... EmeraldPark really needed a niche,... like ethnic mall to serve the local demographic. Lets see how long the EmeraldPark Metro lasts,.... especially if and when RioCan bring in a couple of major anchors to SheppardCentre,... major anchors as in a Walmart or another grocery store. The next few years should be interesting around here,...


BTW,... for the history buff,... we keep on referring to the Miracle, then Dominion, then Metro at the south-east corner of Yonge & Sheppard,... but before Miracle,.. it was a Grand Union (New Jersey chain that was acquired by Tops Supermarket in US),... and then Steinberg`s,... and later renamed Miracle.

 

[Mark F]

The two separate towers are beginning to form up.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Cant believe the city wasn't allowing more height here

Hmmm,... so how could we make AutomationGallery happy?

EmeraldPark at 142m (East Tower) will raise head & Shoulder above the previous 100m height limit. Tridel HullmarkCentre (168m) is surrounded by 100m tall buildings on all 4 sides, except to west with EmeraldPark at about 142m,... GibsonSquare (138m) is pretty much surrounded by 100m buildings as well,... But EmeraldPark has single residential houses to the south and west (with church),... so some could argue EmeraldPark at 142m is excessive.

EmeraldPark's maximum height is set. Even with the same maximum height as before, EmeraldPark went from 40 & 30 storey to 42 and 32 storey by making each storey shorter to squeeze in the 2 extra floors in each tower. Now, let's add another storey to EmeraldPark's shorter West Tower,... without changing it`s maximum height of course! Admin should get ready to update EmeraldPark's West Tower from the current 32 storey to 33 storey. Pretty soon those EmeraldPark condo dwellers will need a hard hat whenever they stand up in their condo!

 

[Digger]

I'm assuming that some of the glass will begin to be installed very soon. Has anyone seen any on site yet? I was by the other day and didn't see anything yet.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Hmmm,... so how could we make AutomationGallery happy?

I cant wait to see North York finally get that 200+ meter building

 

[Edward]

NYCC isn't going to get much higher. Flight path to Pearson Airport.

 

[mkerian]

NYCC isn't going to get much higher. Flight path to Pearson Airport.

I don't think Pearson is a limiting factor on height. I think that's a zoning issue related to density. As far as I know, the Pearson zoning regulations are pretty limited to Mississauga and Etobicoke.

 

[maestro]

Grocery stores, banks, gas station are cluster businesses.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

I cant wait to see North York finally get that 200+ meter building

That would be about 60 storey,..... Double the usual 100metre 30storey former height limit,..... The city is already planning Yonge corridor between Finch and Steeles at 40 storey,..... About 135metre,...

I get the feeling,... If North York ever get a 200+ metre tower,.... You still won't be happy unless its 300+metre,...

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Grocery stores, banks, gas station are cluster businesses.

Gas stations,... Yes,.... Yonge southbound between points and 401 has She'll, ESSO and PetroCanada,...

Banks,.... Clusters to a lesser degree,.... Generally at major intersections in downtown-ish areas,.... Otherwise neighbourhood banks are very territorial.

Large supermarkets are very territorial,.... And tend not to cluster at all,..... Extremely rare to see Loblaws, Metro and Sobey so close together along College-Carlton between Church to Bay,.... Only because that area of downtown Toronto is so staved for supermarket to support all the new downtown condo development.

Could Yonge and Sheppard support two major supermarkets,.... Probably.

Could Yonge and Sheppard support 3 major supermarkets if a third one were to go in Sheppard Centre as Rio-Can is searching for two major anchor tenants there,.... I would say a lot less likely,... Because Yonge and Sheppard residents are more likely to drive and can shop elsewhere,... Whereas downtown folks are less likely to drive and rely more on local supermarkets like the 3 supermarkets at Yonge and College-Carlton

 

[NorthYorkEd]

Could Yonge and Sheppard support 3 major supermarkets if a third one were to go in Sheppard Centre as Rio-Can is searching for two major anchor tenants there,.... I would say a lot less likely,... Because Yonge and Sheppard residents are more likely to drive and can shop elsewhere,... Whereas downtown folks are less likely to drive and rely more on local supermarkets like the 3 supermarkets at Yonge and College-Carlton

I'm not sure that isn't changing. Pedestrian traffic seems to be picking up around here. My wife and I have even discussed getting rid of our car and switching to a car-share service as everything we need is within walking distance. We might drive once a week, and only for pleasure and to get to places we don't have handy, such as Costco, etc. This trend should increase as more local amenities, transit options, and retail stores come online and help to keep people in the area, and hopefully on foot. But that is likely still a few years away, unfortunately.

The people in Avondale would certainly benefit from more grocery options as they are tucked away from the more active sections of Yonge, and at the end of the stretch. They have a Rabba, but Loblaws is a 15-20 min walk to Empress. Sheppard Centre is a shameful example of neglect and wasted opportunity. It's amusing that real estate agents for Avondale properties still use it (and the now CLOSED Grande Cineplex) as a sales incentive.

If Avondale had major grocery within walking distance, it might help alleviate the nightmare of traffic going in and out. We live closer to Empress, but certainly intend to frequent the Whole Foods if it ever opens up, and if there is a Metro or Sobeys in the vicinity, even better. Competition might even improve the Loblaws in Empress as the quality and service there has been lacklustre (IMO). They seem to have developed fat lazy cat syndrome, taking the business for granted and making minimal efforts on all fronts.