maestro
Senior Member
Bazis has some solid partners on this project. There are few connections between this team and the one that led to the One Bloor fiasco . Long storey short ... Tridel has their shoring permit. Bazis doesn't have theirs.
Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
Automation Gallery
Superstar
That explains the slow pace..give it a couple months and this project should be in full throttle.
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
Exactly, just like one Bloor, which is by Great Gulf, and will be fine once permits have been issued.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Attached are photos of the holes that "soil sampling drill rig" drilled at the south-east corner of the site. Oh,... as you can see, those holes are now filled with anchors for the billboard.
BTW,.. there's another towering billboard at the north-east corner of the site. Bazis,... promised to build two towering residential condo towers,... so far, Bazis has only managed to erect two towering billboards!
Personally,... I don't recall ever seeing hoarding with such large billboards anywhere else in Toronto. Technically, that might even be illegal. City bylaw on fencing generally limits it to 2 meter and it must be of uniform height.
Attachments
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
At Hullmark Centre they're pile driving along the subway (northbound to eastbound) tunnel,... that same machine has attachments to sample soil (which they need to do to figure out how hard and deep they need to go).
EmeraldPark haven't even broken ground yet,... so why would EmeraldPark be sampling soil at the surface???
Who actually sample soil at the surface? That's right, Farmers sample soils at the surface when they grow crop,.... and with Bazis being so slow, planting a crop at the EmeraldPark site would actually put that land to use,.... the fall harvest would probably be ready before Bazis can even break ground. AHK
Senior Member
Sunnyraytoronto,
My apologies in one respect - yes, the rig that I saw on the Bazis site was drilling holes which were used for post holes for the signs.
However, some basic equipment information for your edification:
The rig that drilled those holes was very similar to, and may actually have been able to do, soil sampling. The soil sampling rigs typically used in construction sites within Toronto are mounted on the truck bed of mid-sized trucks. Trucks - with wheels, rubber tires, the cab in the front, and the controls for the drilling equipment mounted beside the rig at the back of the truck, with the operator standing on the ground. This was the type of rig that was on the Bazis site. Other sites where soil sampling rigs of this nature have been active in recent months include the X2 site at Jarvis and Charles, and the Menkes Gibson Square site at Yonge and Park Holme.
Shoring equipment, such as that at the Tridel Hullmark site (not pile drivers, but of a similar nature, and very frequently confused by Urban Toronto site participants) is used to drill the holes to build the retaining walls for the site. Shoring (and Pile Driving) rigs are tracked vehicles (not wheels), much larger, and with enclosed operator cabs. The major Toronto area shoring contractors are Deep Foundations, Anchor Shoring, and Rumble. Rigs of this nature are not used for soil sampling.
With reference to the Hullmark site - the shoring has now been done along the south perimeter of the site, where Anndale Drive is to be extended through to Yonge Street. The most recent activity has been along the Yonge Street frontage, at the south end of the site. If you were to take a look at the excavation, you would see curving around the north-west corner are the pre-existing piles done when the Sheppard subway was built. With the exception of the Georgetown Go line grade separation project - which is using pile driving as part of the construction process - excavations in Toronto typically use shoring in construction of the retaining walls, in order to minimize disruption to neighbouring structures. The pile driving activities at the Georgetown line grade separation made the Toronto area news last year due to the amount of damage and disruption caused to the neighbouring community.
Other sites where shoring activities are about to start, currently underway or recently completed include: Freed Development's Fashion House project on King Street West, the Ice and Infinity condominiums, U Condos on Bay, Onni's Garrison project (Bathurst and Fort York Boulevard), Tridel's 300 Front Street project, Empire's Fly Condominiums (also on Front Street), iLoft at 399 Adelaide, King East, Motion (rental building at Bay and Dundas), Gibson Square on Yonge, The Palm also on Yonge, Milan (Yonge and Church), Daniel's Cinema Condominium at Widmar and Adelaide, Canalfa's Liberty Place building, and Plazacorp's the Tower in Liberty Village (between the Metro Store and the Monarch buildings).
Also - for your reference - the Aura thread in the half of the 2010 year contains a number of pictures and comments pertaining to the shoring and excavation process.
BTW - soil sampling is done before ground is broken, so the parties involved know what they will have to contend with - both composition of the ground, and how far down to bedrock - factors which will affect both the shoring and the excavation activities. I would not think there would be any point in soil sampling after groundbreaking and excavation were already underway.
AHK
My apologies in one respect - yes, the rig that I saw on the Bazis site was drilling holes which were used for post holes for the signs.
However, some basic equipment information for your edification:
The rig that drilled those holes was very similar to, and may actually have been able to do, soil sampling. The soil sampling rigs typically used in construction sites within Toronto are mounted on the truck bed of mid-sized trucks. Trucks - with wheels, rubber tires, the cab in the front, and the controls for the drilling equipment mounted beside the rig at the back of the truck, with the operator standing on the ground. This was the type of rig that was on the Bazis site. Other sites where soil sampling rigs of this nature have been active in recent months include the X2 site at Jarvis and Charles, and the Menkes Gibson Square site at Yonge and Park Holme.
Shoring equipment, such as that at the Tridel Hullmark site (not pile drivers, but of a similar nature, and very frequently confused by Urban Toronto site participants) is used to drill the holes to build the retaining walls for the site. Shoring (and Pile Driving) rigs are tracked vehicles (not wheels), much larger, and with enclosed operator cabs. The major Toronto area shoring contractors are Deep Foundations, Anchor Shoring, and Rumble. Rigs of this nature are not used for soil sampling.
With reference to the Hullmark site - the shoring has now been done along the south perimeter of the site, where Anndale Drive is to be extended through to Yonge Street. The most recent activity has been along the Yonge Street frontage, at the south end of the site. If you were to take a look at the excavation, you would see curving around the north-west corner are the pre-existing piles done when the Sheppard subway was built. With the exception of the Georgetown Go line grade separation project - which is using pile driving as part of the construction process - excavations in Toronto typically use shoring in construction of the retaining walls, in order to minimize disruption to neighbouring structures. The pile driving activities at the Georgetown line grade separation made the Toronto area news last year due to the amount of damage and disruption caused to the neighbouring community.
Other sites where shoring activities are about to start, currently underway or recently completed include: Freed Development's Fashion House project on King Street West, the Ice and Infinity condominiums, U Condos on Bay, Onni's Garrison project (Bathurst and Fort York Boulevard), Tridel's 300 Front Street project, Empire's Fly Condominiums (also on Front Street), iLoft at 399 Adelaide, King East, Motion (rental building at Bay and Dundas), Gibson Square on Yonge, The Palm also on Yonge, Milan (Yonge and Church), Daniel's Cinema Condominium at Widmar and Adelaide, Canalfa's Liberty Place building, and Plazacorp's the Tower in Liberty Village (between the Metro Store and the Monarch buildings).
Also - for your reference - the Aura thread in the half of the 2010 year contains a number of pictures and comments pertaining to the shoring and excavation process.
BTW - soil sampling is done before ground is broken, so the parties involved know what they will have to contend with - both composition of the ground, and how far down to bedrock - factors which will affect both the shoring and the excavation activities. I would not think there would be any point in soil sampling after groundbreaking and excavation were already underway.
AHK
Last edited:
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
AHK, Thanks for the detailed post.
I was excited a few years ago when I saw a "soil sampling drill rig" at the Bazis EmeraldPark site (likely the same type you saw last week),.... only to see them later put in anchors for that huge EmeraldPark billboard. The billboard with the picture of EmeraldPark,... which had a tendency to rip and fall down every so often. Hope that's not a "sign" of things to come when Bazis build this two towers EmeraldPark with leaning sides.
With regards to the Tridel Hullmark Centre site,.... are you sure their "shoring equipment" isn't also a pile driver? It sure sound like a pile driver last week before their Christmas break,... anyone in the neighbourhood during working hours can definitely remember those series of loud pile driving hammering sounds (identical to the sounds along the Georgetown Go line which drove the Weston residents nuts). See attachment for photo of Hullmark Centre equipment in question also of attachment that could be used for soil sampling (cylinder on ground with 4 propeller like blades).
I was excited a few years ago when I saw a "soil sampling drill rig" at the Bazis EmeraldPark site (likely the same type you saw last week),.... only to see them later put in anchors for that huge EmeraldPark billboard. The billboard with the picture of EmeraldPark,... which had a tendency to rip and fall down every so often. Hope that's not a "sign" of things to come when Bazis build this two towers EmeraldPark with leaning sides.
With regards to the Tridel Hullmark Centre site,.... are you sure their "shoring equipment" isn't also a pile driver? It sure sound like a pile driver last week before their Christmas break,... anyone in the neighbourhood during working hours can definitely remember those series of loud pile driving hammering sounds (identical to the sounds along the Georgetown Go line which drove the Weston residents nuts). See attachment for photo of Hullmark Centre equipment in question also of attachment that could be used for soil sampling (cylinder on ground with 4 propeller like blades).
Attachments
AHK
Senior Member
Sunnyraytoronto,
Here is more information on the shoring process - an amagamation of info from posts in the Aura thread. Many pictures and comments regarding the shoring and excavation process contained in Aura thread posts 2287 - 2433. To repeat - what is being done on the Tridel Hulmark site is shoring and excavation - not pile driving. Details are similar to the Aura site, as described in the following:
"To clarify the terminology, and perhaps prevent some potential misunderstandings of the shoring and excavation process, there have not been any piles driven at the Aura, nor any pile drivers deployed on the site. Celvidge, in his note of several weeks ago described the shoring process, used to build the retaining walls for the excavation, in post 2081 of this thread on January 16th:
‘It's part of the shoring system, either soldier pile (the steel part) and lagging (wooden slats) or an interlocking caisson (concrete) wall. Generally soldier pile and lagging is considered flexible while interlocking caisson walls are considered rigid. Rigid shoring would be used where adjacent structures cannot tolerate any movement (ie existing College Park buildings). There might be soldier piles along College Street, where slight movement isn't as critical. Caisson walls also have the advantage of being more watertight.
In either case Deep Foundation (DFC) will auger to the required depth, insert the steel pile and fill the hole with concrete. If they are constructing Soldier Pile and lagging, they will space the piles about 3 metres apart and then fill in the gap with horizontal pieces of wood as they excavate. If they are constructing a caisson wall they will auger the piles close enough together that they connect (ie interlock). Once all of the piles are in they will start to excavate.’
Fanoftoronto - the concrete is used to fill the holes created by the augers. As explained by Celvidge, some holes have the steel beams in them, some do not. Along the Yonge Street side, the holes are up to approximately sixty feet deep, and require (according to one of the people on site) twelve cubic meters of cement, which works out to about one and a half cement mixer truck loads to fill.
The loud "banging" noise, which sounds much like pile driving (repeated a few times in succession) results from the augering part of the shoring process. The augering system consists of an inner shaft, with the drill bit at the bottom, and an outer shell, which is turned by the engine in the front of the machine, to rotate the whole assembly. After a few turns, the conical drill bit at the bottom gets full, and the auger lifts the shafts out of the hole, and swings to one side. The shaft is then turned very quickly in the reverse to the drill direction to spill off the earth of the drill bit. At the same time, the outer shell of the shaft is dropped down to a flange on the inner shaft, to shake loose any remaining earth on the drill bit, making a very loud banging noise when they hit. I think it is that is what you have been hearing.
The BAUER equipment web site has photos of their different types of equipment, including their line of pile drivers. Pile drivers look quite different - they have large weights at the top of the boom, which are dropped down onto the steel beam, to push it into the ground. Also, as far as I know, when steel beams are pile driven into the ground, they are not encased in cement, they just go straight in."
AHK
Here is more information on the shoring process - an amagamation of info from posts in the Aura thread. Many pictures and comments regarding the shoring and excavation process contained in Aura thread posts 2287 - 2433. To repeat - what is being done on the Tridel Hulmark site is shoring and excavation - not pile driving. Details are similar to the Aura site, as described in the following:
"To clarify the terminology, and perhaps prevent some potential misunderstandings of the shoring and excavation process, there have not been any piles driven at the Aura, nor any pile drivers deployed on the site. Celvidge, in his note of several weeks ago described the shoring process, used to build the retaining walls for the excavation, in post 2081 of this thread on January 16th:
‘It's part of the shoring system, either soldier pile (the steel part) and lagging (wooden slats) or an interlocking caisson (concrete) wall. Generally soldier pile and lagging is considered flexible while interlocking caisson walls are considered rigid. Rigid shoring would be used where adjacent structures cannot tolerate any movement (ie existing College Park buildings). There might be soldier piles along College Street, where slight movement isn't as critical. Caisson walls also have the advantage of being more watertight.
In either case Deep Foundation (DFC) will auger to the required depth, insert the steel pile and fill the hole with concrete. If they are constructing Soldier Pile and lagging, they will space the piles about 3 metres apart and then fill in the gap with horizontal pieces of wood as they excavate. If they are constructing a caisson wall they will auger the piles close enough together that they connect (ie interlock). Once all of the piles are in they will start to excavate.’
Fanoftoronto - the concrete is used to fill the holes created by the augers. As explained by Celvidge, some holes have the steel beams in them, some do not. Along the Yonge Street side, the holes are up to approximately sixty feet deep, and require (according to one of the people on site) twelve cubic meters of cement, which works out to about one and a half cement mixer truck loads to fill.
The loud "banging" noise, which sounds much like pile driving (repeated a few times in succession) results from the augering part of the shoring process. The augering system consists of an inner shaft, with the drill bit at the bottom, and an outer shell, which is turned by the engine in the front of the machine, to rotate the whole assembly. After a few turns, the conical drill bit at the bottom gets full, and the auger lifts the shafts out of the hole, and swings to one side. The shaft is then turned very quickly in the reverse to the drill direction to spill off the earth of the drill bit. At the same time, the outer shell of the shaft is dropped down to a flange on the inner shaft, to shake loose any remaining earth on the drill bit, making a very loud banging noise when they hit. I think it is that is what you have been hearing.
The BAUER equipment web site has photos of their different types of equipment, including their line of pile drivers. Pile drivers look quite different - they have large weights at the top of the boom, which are dropped down onto the steel beam, to push it into the ground. Also, as far as I know, when steel beams are pile driven into the ground, they are not encased in cement, they just go straight in."
AHK
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
This Toronto Star article has video and sound of piledriving,.... different vehicle than the ones at Tridel Hullmark Centre,.... but definately the same loud banging sound.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/622268
I bet the new residents of 23 Sheppard Ave East (new condo building east of Hullmark Centre) are enjoying their wake up call.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/622268
I bet the new residents of 23 Sheppard Ave East (new condo building east of Hullmark Centre) are enjoying their wake up call.
mehr
New Member
Hi,
We signed a contract to buy a unit in EP. Now, the Vendor has brought us an Amendment to sign in order to delay the construction. This Amendment (2010) is not consistent with the Agreement of Purchase and Sale (2008). They have also mentioned that: "either sign the Amendment or Release in order to cancel the deal".
I am wondering If we have to sign the either case. Do we lose anything if we do not sign it? if you have bought a unit and have a lawyer, could you please share your experience with us?
-------------------------------------------------------
Amendment (2010)
"Original Tentative Possession Date" has been substituted with "Tentative Possession Date as specified on the first page of the agreement" in the Amendment. For this reason, it does not clearly express the actual intention.
In fact, they want to go beyond the following two sentences and change the "original" tentative possession date in contrast with what has been expressed in the Agreement.
-------------------------------------------------------
Agreement of Purchase and Sale (2008)
Page-3, Line 13-15: "... selected date shall not be more than Twenty Four (24) months from the originally scheduled Tentative Possession Date subject to force majeure; or"
Page-3, Line 40-41: "... not exceeding in total Twenty-Four (24) months from the original Tentative Possession Date..."
--------------------------------------------------------
After finding this issue, we contacted them and they confirm that:
"It means that By amending the tentative date to 5/30/2013, the new date (5/30/2013) would become the original date within the context of that paragraph so, to be clear, the Vendor would have the right to extend up to 24 months (with force majeure) based on a tentative/original date of 5/30/2013, giving the Vendor a time frame to deliver by 5/30/2015 (with force majeure)"
Thanks,
Mehr
Mehr, the way the forum works, you do not need to respond to each previous poster with the same message as your full post above. Everyone who goes into or subscribes to the thread will see your full post.
42
42
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Mehr,... and any other EmeraldPark condo buyers out there looking for free legal advice on an urbantoronto board. You obviously did NOT do your homework with this developer! If you bought the condo in 2008 (VIP rollout was June, Friday the 13th! - Agent rollout was July 10, 2008),.... Bazis was promising "Occupancy Commencing: November 30, 2011". You'll be lucky if they even get a shovel in the ground by then!!!
Mehr,... start reading the post here from the beginning of this thread. Some of the very knowledgeable senior posters here made a number of warnings and prediction a few years ago. Back then Solaris (who is knowledgeable in the development approval applications and zoning process) correctly predicted there's no way this project would be finished by 2011 and maybe built by 2013 at the earliest,.... and now it seems Bazis is now realizing that 2013 is too optomistic.
The problem with Bazis is that they start marketing/selling their condo development WAY BEFORE they're even close to getting the all the city/OMB approvals and permits required. Bazis is the only one that does this,... all the reputable developer wait until they at least have a good idea of what they can actually build before they start selling! Bazis first handed in their application to the city on July 7, 2008,.... these Official Plan Amendment (OPA) and Zoning By-law Amendment (ZBA) takes years!
So where is Bazis EmeraldPark project in the application/zoning phases? A reputable developer would have started marketing/selling about now or maybe even 6 months ago,... because now the developer has a relatively good idea of what they can build,... and sell.
Funny thing is Bazis EmeraldPark hoardings are all up and it looks like they're ready to go! So why did they put the hoardings up so early,... probably because Tridel's Hullmark Centre hoardings are up (Hullmark Centre actually started excavation and shoring already!) Bazis did the same thing at 1 Bloor East,... putting up their fencing and demolishing way before they even got their permits for excavation/shoring/construction,... oh, and apparently before they got their financing!
In comparison, Bazis 1 Bloor East project was relatively simpler in the city development approval applications/zoning process,... they only wanted to add more height to what was already approved (adding about 20 storeys). Bazis EmeraldPark is a lot more complex in terms of Official Plan Amendment (OPA) and Zoning By-law Amendment (ZBA),... I'll post a bit more on this later.
Mehr,... start reading the post here from the beginning of this thread. Some of the very knowledgeable senior posters here made a number of warnings and prediction a few years ago. Back then Solaris (who is knowledgeable in the development approval applications and zoning process) correctly predicted there's no way this project would be finished by 2011 and maybe built by 2013 at the earliest,.... and now it seems Bazis is now realizing that 2013 is too optomistic.
The problem with Bazis is that they start marketing/selling their condo development WAY BEFORE they're even close to getting the all the city/OMB approvals and permits required. Bazis is the only one that does this,... all the reputable developer wait until they at least have a good idea of what they can actually build before they start selling! Bazis first handed in their application to the city on July 7, 2008,.... these Official Plan Amendment (OPA) and Zoning By-law Amendment (ZBA) takes years!
So where is Bazis EmeraldPark project in the application/zoning phases? A reputable developer would have started marketing/selling about now or maybe even 6 months ago,... because now the developer has a relatively good idea of what they can build,... and sell.
Funny thing is Bazis EmeraldPark hoardings are all up and it looks like they're ready to go! So why did they put the hoardings up so early,... probably because Tridel's Hullmark Centre hoardings are up (Hullmark Centre actually started excavation and shoring already!) Bazis did the same thing at 1 Bloor East,... putting up their fencing and demolishing way before they even got their permits for excavation/shoring/construction,... oh, and apparently before they got their financing!
In comparison, Bazis 1 Bloor East project was relatively simpler in the city development approval applications/zoning process,... they only wanted to add more height to what was already approved (adding about 20 storeys). Bazis EmeraldPark is a lot more complex in terms of Official Plan Amendment (OPA) and Zoning By-law Amendment (ZBA),... I'll post a bit more on this later.
maestro
Senior Member
Bazis is hardly the only developer to "test" the market by selling suites before they have even submitted a formal re-zoning application. And, again, this Bazis led group has very little resemblance to the defunct One Bloor group. Tridel has been involved in the construction of hundreds of highrises in the city. Not only are they developers but, bankers and, builders. They know the system through and through. It's hardly fair to compare the two companies let alone two neighbouring but vastly different development projects.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Yeah, and sunnyray you cant be constantly be beating up on Bazis, when in reality today they have little control over Emerald Park...it seems like the same broken record.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
So which developer routinely "test" the market like Bazis? Remember how the "old Bazis" tested 1 Bloor East by advertising condos starting in the 200's,.... then after folks have lined up for weeks to get first crack,... just before the sales office doors open,.. they changed the sign to "starting price in 400's"
Sure its fair to compare Bazis to the big boys,.... Bazis came into this market going head to head against the big boys, marketing themselves and selling against the big boys,... but as of yet, they certainly haven't been able to deliver like the big boys.
If this "new Bazis" is so different from the "old Bazis",... why is the "new Bazis" with Metropia & Plazacorp still using some of the same old tricks from the "old Bazis" old bag of tricks?
For example: hoarding up the site before they even have ecavation/shoring permits like how the "old Bazis" fenced off 1 Bloor East site way before they had ecavation/shoring permits. And waited,... and waited,... and waited,...
Or maybe you could explain to buyers like Mehr,... why the "new Bazis" keeps on extending possession date,.... from the originally promised Nov 2011 (at sales),... now from May 2013 to May 2015. That's a 7 years wait on a condo project that still may or may not happen. For families that are renting while they wait,... 7 years of rent can basically cover half of your typical 15 year mortgage and build up equity.
IF the "new Bazis" ever get final approval to go ahead of with EmeraldPark,... I wonder how much it'll be cheapened from the renderings like the "old Bazis" did with their CrystalBlue condo project.