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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Personally, I like this move. What I would like to eventually see is all rapid transit in the GTHA under the control of Metrolinx, with only the local surface routes being run by the local transit agencies.

Rapid transit routes are going to cross municipal boundaries more and more, so having a single agency in charge of the routes using a standardized zone fare system will make it simpler for everybody. If we continue the way we're going now, we're going to see more and more of the complex deals like what was negotiated between Toronto and Vaughan/YR for the TYSSE. If that was run by and paid for by Metrolinx, that border wouldn't really be an issue.
 
Juan_Lennon416 said:
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/article/1259581--ttc-won-t-operate-eglinton-lrt
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I am a bit confused about this. The article seems to talk about Operate and Maintain - no mention of Build. However, many of the statements in the article seem to suggest that it includes construction. (i.e. "Stintz says the TTC’s input will now largely be restricted to the design of the interchange stations", "Under the AFP model, we protect taxpayers by building in strict penalties for any cost and schedule overruns"). There is also comparison to the Canada Line, but I believe that also included all construction.

So how is this being built? Metrolinx recently announce the award of the tunnel construction (http://www.thecrosstown.ca/news-med...ss-on-delivering-transit-solutions-in-toronto). Will the station construction, tracks, electrical, etc. be part of the P3 (AFP) and all tunnelling, including the East portion, be Design-Bid-Build?

Finally, how can they announce the award of the tunnelling when they haven't announced what will be done with the dirt and whether the Allen will be shut down during construction. Surely these will have a large impact on price. Is the dirt being used to fill in the Allen or is it being dumped elsewhere? If there are any plans to close Allen Expressway (Road) then the plan on the future of the Allen should be co-ordinated with this work.
 
What happens when there is an "incident" on any of the lines? Will the non-TTC operator have their own fleet of buses on stand-by, or will the TTC send in their own buses to help with the "incident"? And what about overnight? Will it be running 24 hours a day? Or will the TTC run whenever the LRT is down for the night?

The TTC is one of the least subsidized public transit agencies in North America. It makes sense that the TTC should operate the LRT lines, since they already operate under a shortage of revenue from the province and federal governments.
 
W. K. Lis said:
What happens when there is an "incident" on any of the lines? Will the non-TTC operator have their own fleet of buses on stand-by, or will the TTC send in their own buses to help with the "incident"? And what about overnight? Will it be running 24 hours a day? Or will the TTC run whenever the LRT is down for the night?

The TTC is one of the least subsidized public transit agencies in North America. It makes sense that the TTC should operate the LRT lines, since they already operate under a shortage of revenue from the province and federal governments.
Click to expand...

I have a feeling it will operate privately, but in the cases like that, the private company would "contract out" the temporary buses from the TTC for the day. (i.e. pay the TTC to operate buses on the route for the downtime)

Hopefully the line stays labelled as the TTC, but the only difference being the fact of who runs it. (same label for customer convience, but different companies) all the company running the lines would have to do would to record how many riders there were for the year, and then go pick up the said funds from the TTC fare box. (hopefully) this would allow for a such a seamless experience that a typical user would have no idea that it was being run by a different company than the TTC.
 
W. K. Lis said:
What happens when there is an "incident" on any of the lines? Will the non-TTC operator have their own fleet of buses on stand-by, or will the TTC send in their own buses to help with the "incident"? And what about overnight? Will it be running 24 hours a day? Or will the TTC run whenever the LRT is down for the night?

The TTC is one of the least subsidized public transit agencies in North America. It makes sense that the TTC should operate the LRT lines, since they already operate under a shortage of revenue from the province and federal governments.
Click to expand...

Easy - the private operator has an agreement with TTC that would apply in emergencies and the private operator pays TTC for the service (i.e. at a premium) (as well has having to pay Metrolinx a penalty under the Concession Agreement for delayed service).
Compare those disincentives to those that TTC would face in similar circumstances.

As for night service, that would probably remain TTC as it is outside the scope of the regular hours of the LRT service.

What'll be interesting is if the decide to optimize the use of technology and grade separate the line so it can be automated.
 
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I wonder if Metrolinx is just going to extend the same type of contract they have with Bombardier for GO to the Crosstown, and other LRTs. It'll be interesting to see the details when they come out, that's for sure.
 
This decision makes sense for the grade-separated Eglinton and Scarborough rapid transit lines. They should have left the on-street LRTs (local transit) to the TTC though.

Should also be interesting to see if the private sector pushes for Eglinton East to be grade-separated (elevated or side of road) as ridership was projected to double if the line was completely separated.
 
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superman said:
This decision makes sense for the grade-separated Eglinton and Scarborough rapid transit lines. They should have left the on-street LRTs (local transit) to the TTC though.
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If a private company is going to operate the transit on a city street, presumably the city will have to lease the part of the street to the province or something.

This is all about ownership. The province wants to own the line, because of accounting rules. The city could make a lot of $ here. :)
 
superman said:
This decision makes sense for the grade-separated Eglinton and Scarborough rapid transit lines. They should have left the on-street LRTs (local transit) to the TTC though.

Should also be interesting to see if the private sector pushes for Eglinton East to be grade-separated (elevated or side of road) as ridership was projected to double if the line was completely separated.
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That's a very interesting point. It could be especially interesting if they bring in the same group responsible for the Canada Line. Certainly they're no strangers to an elevated LRT down the middle (or directly alongside) of a suburban avenue.

I always thought that if the B-D extension to Sheppard & McCowan didn't go ahead, that running the Eglinton and Scarborough LRTs as a single thru-line was the next best option.

Would also be interesting to see what this group brings forward in terms of money for a future westward extension. They can't really expect to get any ownership % of the line if they don't chip in money to help build it. If it's still being built 100% with public money, I'd certainly hope that the contract would only be to build, operate, and maintain, without any ownership stake.
 
Guys, the fact that a private sector company will run the line means NOTHING other than the fact that it will be private sector employees running the line instead of the TTC. Apart from that the system will look like a seamless integrationg with the TTC from the customer's perspective.

The only thing that the private sector will be in charge of after construciton is complete, is running and maintaining the line. The fare and other issues would be set by the province in a contract, where the company would presumably make a bonus if they exceed cost-recovery targets (hence the incentive to run the system more efficiently, without reducing the given service levels set forth in the agreement.)

This is a common practice throughout Asia, and even right here in Canada (VIVA York, Canada Line).

So for all of you wondering if the private sector will push for grade separation, that will not happen. The money is already allocated to what is planned and the agreement will be based off of that.

This is often referred to as a Design Build Finance Operate Maintain contract. Where the money is eventually paid to the private sector for the total cost, but in the interim it is designed, built and financed by the private industry to reduce the upfront capital costs to the government. Another advantage with this is expertise, since the private sector will be building the line, it makes sense to have the same company design it for their own optimal operating preocedures. This allows the private sector to tailor and build the line at a better quality and more efficient design that will ultimately help them make better returns when they run it.

I for one truly think this is a very good way of building rapid transit, and would hope that future expansion is done in the same way. As for existing lines, I doubt much savings would be had at this point by putting private sector employees to run it.
 
This strikes me as Metrolinx trying to give itself another reason to exist. Ideally they would've financed, planned, and built the region's transit upgrades but they've lost the financing and planning jobs so they're trying to get into local operations.
 
BMO said:
Guys, the fact that a private sector company will run the line means NOTHING other than the fact that it will be private sector employees running the line instead of the TTC. Apart from that the system will look like a seamless integrationg with the TTC from the customer's perspective.

The only thing that the private sector will be in charge of after construciton is complete, is running and maintaining the line. The fare and other issues would be set by the province in a contract, where the company would presumably make a bonus if they exceed cost-recovery targets (hence the incentive to run the system more efficiently, without reducing the given service levels set forth in the agreement.)

This is a common practice throughout Asia, and even right here in Canada (VIVA York, Canada Line).

So for all of you wondering if the private sector will push for grade separation, that will not happen. The money is already allocated to what is planned and the agreement will be based off of that.

This is often referred to as a Design Build Finance Operate Maintain contract. Where the money is eventually paid to the private sector for the total cost, but in the interim it is designed, built and financed by the private industry to reduce the upfront capital costs to the government. Another advantage with this is expertise, since the private sector will be building the line, it makes sense to have the same company design it for their own optimal operating preocedures. This allows the private sector to tailor and build the line at a better quality and more efficient design that will ultimately help them make better returns when they run it.

I for one truly think this is a very good way of building rapid transit, and would hope that future expansion is done in the same way. As for existing lines, I doubt much savings would be had at this point by putting private sector employees to run it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they may push for the Eglinton and Scarborough lines to be combined, since the infrastructure will already be in place for a single through route?

Unlikely, but I would have also liked to see them remove some of the smaller stops on the lines to save money, with provisions to add them in if surrounding stops become too busy. Meanwhile the city could pick up the slack by running local bus service alongside if deemed necessary.

Also, it would have been nice for them to look at an elevated option for Eglinton East, as well as Finch and Sheppard (for the latter, possibly even creating a portal to allow through routing with the subway) to help boost ridership, but I'm guessing we are beyond the point of no return and to implement such changes would cost too much time and money.
 
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