Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Natika33]

Vehicle type does not matter. If it did, the Scarborough RT would have been differentiated on the map differently than the other lines, and it was not.

To the average customer, the Eglinton and Finch West lines will behave a lot like a subway - they will come quite frequently, they will have to pay before boarding the vehicle, and they will be able to enter from any door. Thus, it makes sense to put them on the map as equivalent.


Agreed on all counts.


Also agreed. This is why I disagree with putting the streetcars on any subway map without also putting a bus. The two are equivalent.

Dan

Hmmm... I do not see streetcars & buses as equivalent & most definitely would choose a route that uses the former over the latter when the option exists. And I'd like to visually be able to see my subway & streetcar options together, not on different maps. But I guess it is also true that most of us will just use Google Maps to plan our routes, not maps, so perhaps the point is moot.

 

[smallspy]

Hmmm... I do not see streetcars & buses as equivalent & most definitely would choose a route that uses the former over the latter when the option exists. And I'd like to visually be able to see my subway & streetcar options together, not on different maps. But I guess it is also true that most of us will just use Google Maps to plan our routes, not maps, so perhaps the point is moot.

While most transit nerds would prefer a streetcar to a bus (myself included), the reality is that to the average person they are equivalent. Both types operate in mixed traffic on busy streets, do not have level boarding, and require payment when boarding the vehicle.

Dan

 

[Natika33]

While most transit nerds would prefer a streetcar to a bus (myself included), the reality is that to the average person they are equivalent. Both types operate in mixed traffic on busy streets, do not have level boarding, and require payment when boarding the vehicle.

Dan

I wonder if there's been a study on that. It's just anecdotal, but most of my non-transit nerd friends have also expressed their preference for the smoother riding streetcar over the rough bus any time I've brought it up.

 

[lowtrain]

I personally prefer a bus over a streetcar due to the speed. I can walk faster than streetcars downtown.

 

[KhalilHeron]

I know a great many people in Waterloo region only take the ION and almost never take a bus if they can help it. Most of these people are relatively new transit riders but it shows that perceived comfort and reliability of a trains, even if running on street, can have a real effect on mode choice.

 

[UntitledCyclist]

Not sure if this has been posted, but signage up at St George Station! POST SCRIPT - oops - didn't go back far enough, yup already up

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Why is Line 6 so dinky? And goes... nowhere?

 

[T3G]

Why is Line 6 so dinky? And goes... nowhere?

Because it's in the suburbs, they don't have destinations out there.

But more specifically in the case of the map, you can see that line 5 is not shown in its full length, either, only in so far as it touches Line 1. It's not supposed to be a full demonstration of the service, only to call out that Line 1 intersects with it.

 

[UntitledCyclist]

Because it's in the suburbs, they don't have destinations out there.

But more specifically in the case of the map, you can see that line 5 is not shown in its full length, either, only in so far as it touches Line 1. It's not supposed to be a full demonstration of the service, only to call out that Line 1 intersects with it.

I think at least having an indication of a terminal stop would be useful, but what do I know!

 

[nfitz]

Why is Line 6 so dinky? And goes... nowhere?

I'm not sure I'd call Etobicoke General Hospital and the 20,000 people at Humber Polytechnic – the western terminus – nowhere. Or the Jane & Finch neighbourhood. With almost 40,000 riders a day in Fall 2024, the 36 Finch West has the highest ridership of any bus route in Toronto, exceed only by the 504 King and even higher than Line 4. It was 55,000 pre-Covid in 2019. Admittedly some of the 36 traffic is between Finch West and Finch station.

 

[canucks2030]

I know a great many people in Waterloo region only take the ION and almost never take a bus if they can help it. Most of these people are relatively new transit riders but it shows that perceived comfort and reliability of a trains, even if running on street, can have a real effect on mode choice.

The Ion different and amazing because connecting many points of interests with an infrastructure. This is why it works so well. It’s connecting two downtowns, two university’s, an hospital, the innovation district, etc. It’s making Kitchener-Waterloo feels like one city.

 

[Rainforest]

I know a great many people in Waterloo region only take the ION and almost never take a bus if they can help it. Most of these people are relatively new transit riders but it shows that perceived comfort and reliability of a trains, even if running on street, can have a real effect on mode choice.

My guess, this has less to do with comfort, and more with the frequency and reliability.

I am mode neutral, it does not matter for me if a bus or a streetcar serves a particular route. Speed and frequency are the reasons to take this route, or look for alternative options.

 

[MisterF]

I wonder if there's been a study on that. It's just anecdotal, but most of my non-transit nerd friends have also expressed their preference for the smoother riding streetcar over the rough bus any time I've brought it up.

I've seen studies about this before, although I can't remember where so I can't provide any links. From what I recall, the conclusions lined up with what your friends have said - with all things being equal people tend to prefer rail vehicles over buses. It is of course difficult to control for all things being equal, for example streetcars being forced to move through intersections at a snails pace while buses aren't.

 

[KhalilHeron]

My guess, this has less to do with comfort, and more with the frequency and reliability.

I am mode neutral, it does not matter for me if a bus or a streetcar serves a particular route. Speed and frequency are the reasons to take this route, or look for alternative options.

I know at least someone who doesn't like taking the bus, even the routes that run every 10 minutes like the ION because of how shaky it can be especially if you need to stand. I think comfort is a bigger factor for new riders than most transit nerds think. Reliability is huge too though. The ION is rarely more than a minute late while it's comparable bus services run at least 5 minutes late every time in my experience. Attracting new riders is less important on Eglinton than in waterloo region, but the upgrade from bus to train alone will defiantly attract some new riders

 

[Rainforest]

I know at least someone who doesn't like taking the bus, even the routes that run every 10 minutes like the ION because of how shaky it can be especially if you need to stand. I think comfort is a bigger factor for new riders than most transit nerds think. Reliability is huge too though. The ION is rarely more than a minute late while it's comparable bus services run at least 5 minutes late every time in my experience. Attracting new riders is less important on Eglinton than in waterloo region, but the upgrade from bus to train alone will defiantly attract some new riders

People's preferences vary. Shakiness is not a factor for me, but may be a factor for other riders.

On Eglinton, we can expect a massive inflow of riders, but it will be hard to classify what brought them to this line because multiple factors will be in play.

New residential construction => a greater pool of potential riders.

Much faster operation in the tunnel part => Eglinton route is more attractive for existing riders who previously chose other routes.

Plus, the comfort factor.

 

[McGillicuddy]

If we're talking specifically about passenger comfort, then in the specific case of Eglinton, there's also a pretty significant push factor for a minority of riders.

To board the Eglinton Bus, you stand on a kerb, then step aboard the bus. To disembark, you stand at the door, then step to the kerb. In a lot of ways this is even easier than doing the same maneuver from a car, especially if you are travelling with stroller-aged children or you use a mobility aid.

To board the Eglinton Crosstown at the underground stations, you've got to descend 3-4 flights of stairs and escalators, or take at least 2 elevators. It's a thing.

This thing will not be offputting to most passengers, and it has other compensations. (A dry, well-lit waiting area. Little coffee shops at certain stations. Bike parking. Off-street bus transfers. An LRT...)

But there will be other people (especially those who will struggle most with the flights of stairs) who might reasonably prefer a bus. For these people, the above-ground platforms meet this specific need much better. (And, indeed, they have nothing to complain about on the Finch Line or the ION.)