innsertnamehere
Superstar
Exactly what bus routes service Lebovic and especially Ferrand? Ferrand doesn't even have a cross-street for buses to run on. Lebovic also does not have an existing or planned bus route on it.
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UntitledCyclist
Active Member
I'm sure it's out there somewhere, but are the seating arrangements for ECLRT (and FLRT) the same as the Flexity Streetcars in circulation? I hate those so much: the 4-seat boxes where you play footsy with people across from you, and the very narrow aisles that make walking front or back in the train virtually impossible without jostling everyone in an aisle seat. These things definitely impact loading times too, especially when someone needs to move to an exit with a mobility device or a stroller.
Northern Light
Superstar
This will change, Ferrand is getting lights and will be a cross street. (whether that justifies a stop is a different question)
Correct.
T3G
Senior Member
Why would this be the case, when the open area with flip up seats is located immediately across from a doorway?
Unfortunately, that is a consequence of making the vehicles accessible to the groups you mentioned above. We as a society decided high floor vehicles with wheelchair lifts are not it, and thus the only other option is a low floor tram, with all the benefits and drawbacks inherent to the design.
I will agree about the 4 seat boxes, though. I would have much preferred for the seats over the trucks to be all facing inward. They'd probably be (relatively) cleaner, too, since we live in a society of selfish jackasses who insist on putting their dirty shoes up on anything that is within stretching distance of them.
smallspy
Senior Member
Rapid transit stations need to be as close or as far as they need to be. Here, considering the passenger loads that regularly get on and off of the buses, it makes sense to have a stop.
Maybe you shouldn't get hung up on terms such as "rapid". It's arbitrary, not an absolute. And it will be faster than the service that exists there today.
Dan
TOtramz
Active Member
I've heard somewhere that the stops on the Scarborough portion of the line were spaced so close together because the plan was to not need a supplementary 34 bus once operational.
Not sure how true that is though
Not sure how true that is though
A 6264
Active Member
I would have thought they run the trains at full speed, and make long stops as a guesstimate of actual stop time if there were passengers getting in and out. How is running trains slower, a simulation or test of the system?
Steve X
Senior Member
Many times, you see the trains dwell for a whole minute at platforms and traffic lights. They could have totally gone through.
cplchanb
Senior Member
not to mention they get the signal shaft since the transit signal goes red first a whole 10+sec before the road's.... unbelievable how hard toronto is trying to neuter themselves.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
They should just make Don Valley the end of the line and have riders transfer onto a bus to Kennedy. Honestly, what difference would it make at this point?
This is what happens when you have a single transit line that operates as a subway for 2/3, and than switches to a streetcar for the last 1/3.
The surface portion of the line is going to have a negative impact on the underground portion. How can the TTC properly schedule westbound trains in the underground portion if those same trains are constantly being held up by red lights on the surface portion of the line?
urbanclient
Active Member
One thing that has been briefly mentioned in the past, but worth mentioning again is the dubious claim that the Flexity Freedom (Line 5 Eglinton) cars have a max capacity of 251 per 5 module train around 30 metres in length. Two trains per trainset for Line 5 would be a total of ~60 metres and ~500 passengers. This has implications for the true route capacity of Line 5. Bombardier claimed this number was with an insane 6 passenger per square metre crush load. (https://urbantoronto.ca/forum/attachments/bombardier-flexity-freedom-brochure-2011-pdf.95184/)
Since seating layout and rolling stock size is virtually identical to the Outlook streetcars, I highly doubt it would be possible to fit 251 passengers per train. People on the train would start crowding the doors and those waiting to board would skip one train to wait for the next. Furthermore, each Flexity Freedom Eglinton car only has 2 small and 2 large doors for a total of 4 doors over 30 metres. The Toronto Rocket trains on Line 1 have 4 doors 1.5 metres wide for every ~23 metre long car. The widest doors on Line 5 trains would still be narrower than those on Lines 1, 2, 4.
A more reasonable number would be 198 per train (see pdf above), but that would still entail a standing density of ~4.3 passengers/m^2. To roughly match the typical (not max) standing density of a Toronto Rocket, it would be more like 160 per train (~3 passenger/m^2). Thus, two car trainsets would have a typical capacity of 320. If they run them every 5 minutes that would be only 3840 people per direction per hour. Every 3 minutes would be 6400.
The Toronto Rocket 6 car typical capacity is 1080 with 400 seats at a standing density of ~3 passenger/m^2. (https://www.ttc.ca/transparency-and...erating-Statistics---2018/Conventional-System)
^Note: TTC claimed in 2018 that the Flexity Outlook streetcars had a typical capacity of 130. The Flexity Freedom Line 5 trains are only ~4% wider, 2.65 vs. 2.54 metres.
Voltz
Senior Member
Okay, they did use a high passenger density number, but the trains can be three cars long to begin with. And if the line does actually have passenger capacity concerns then you can't possibly be the first person in the more than 15 years that the lines been under study and construction to notice it.
Voltz
Senior Member
The bemoaning of a forced linear transfer from the anti Sheppard LRT crowd was deafening.
bearcat
Active Member
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One-way cross street on the south side no? I doubt buses will run on it. And you won't be able to get to the Ferrand LRT stop from the intersection with Eglinton, and the Don Valley LRT station entrance will be closer.
KhalilHeron
Active Member
Yet the spacing in north york made them keep the parallel 34 : (I've heard somewhere that the stops on the Scarborough portion of the line were spaced so close together because the plan was to not need a supplementary 34 bus once operational.
Not sure how true that is though
Once development in Golden Mile gets going i could see them moving 34 service to either Golden Mile Blvd or the new O'Connor