Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[toronto647]

Worrying about what the frequency of the line is the least of our concerns, we should be more concerned whether the line will open this year or even before the end of this decade... At this rate they will open EG LRT and EGW LRT at the same time.

 

[ThenWhat]

In 1987, peak service is 2'40" in peak (2 car trains), 4' daytime, 6' evenings and Sunday
By 1988, they moved to 4 car trains operating either 4' or 6'.
In the closing months in 2023, peak was 5' and 6'45' off peak

Line 4 operated with 7'20" with 3 trains during the pandemic till recently.

SRT did not run on street level.
For ELRT, I don't see how less than 6' is possible, even in peak. Based on dwell time in stations, traffic lights and a realistic estimate of speed between stations.
I will be happy if I am wrong.

 

[APTA-2048]

Worrying about what the frequency of the line is the least of our concerns, we should be more concerned whether the line will open this year or even before the end of this decade... At this rate they will open EG LRT and EGW LRT at the same time.

Not to mention, as far as I’ve heard and seen, they have yet to operate the line with in-service frequencies along with the planned in-service number of vehicles. Not consistently anyways.

 

[cplchanb]

In 1987, peak service is 2'40" in peak (2 car trains), 4' daytime, 6' evenings and Sunday
By 1988, they moved to 4 car trains operating either 4' or 6'.
In the closing months in 2023, peak was 5' and 6'45' off peak

Line 4 operated with 7'20" with 3 trains during the pandemic till recently.

So this is more or less SRT frequencies which is fine for now. I've been riding the 34 for a while both from eglinton and from kennedy during mornong rush and even their frequencies aren't exactly a deal breaker. I wouldn't be too worried about 6-10min headways at this time

 

[T3G]

SRT did not run on street level.
For ELRT, I don't see how less than 6' is possible, even in peak. Based on dwell time in stations, traffic lights and a realistic estimate of speed between stations.
I will be happy if I am wrong.

In the old days, almost all of our streetcar routes ran really short headways, much shorter than 6 minutes. Street running, ROW-based European tramway systems also run at short headways. There is nothing remotely undoable about it.

 

[Steve X]

If you look at Ottawa, the confederation line runs 10 min off peak with the length equivalent to 3 car trains.

 

[nfitz]

I think one thing people aren't considering is that observations seem only to have been made west of Laird. Are there any observations at Mount Dennis? Hasn't there been talk of operationally short-turning some (peak?) trains at Laird.

For ELRT, I don't see how less than 6' is possible, even in peak. Based on dwell time in stations, traffic lights and a realistic estimate of speed between stations.
I will be happy if I am wrong.

I don't see how speed or dwell times would impact frequency. If they are all moving at the same speed, with the same dwell time, then they could move at 1-km an hour with a 5-hour dwell and still run every 3 minutes. It's all very silly of course ... but it doesn't impact frequency.

Traffic lights might be interesting - but what's the maximum traffic light cycle? I'd think you could easily run double that amount without much issue. And simply hold the occasional car at a stop, if the car ahead is too close, so it respaces. But that will be a potential issue, for the short distance where there are multiple lights.

 

[Steve X]

I think one thing people aren't considering is that observations seem only to have been made west of Laird. Are there any observations at Mount Dennis? Hasn't there been talk of operationally short-turning some (peak?) trains at Laird.

I don't see how speed or dwell times would impact frequency. If they are all moving at the same speed, with the same dwell time, then they could move at 1-km an hour with a 5-hour dwell and still run every 3 minutes. It's all very silly of course ... but it doesn't impact frequency.

Traffic lights might be interesting - but what's the maximum traffic light cycle? I'd think you could easily run double that amount without much issue. And simply hold the occasional car at a stop, if the car ahead is too close, so it respaces. But that will be a potential issue, for the short distance where there are multiple lights.

Yeah that would be pretty pathetic if trains are lined up back to back.

Somehow I highly doubt TTC lines the short turn idea. They will just mess it up and make the whole line run like a mess. When they had the line 1 short turn at Glencarin, they only did it in the morning.

 

[nfitz]

Somehow I highly doubt TTC lines the short turn idea. They will just mess it up and make the whole line run like a mess. When they had the line 1 short turn at Glencarin, they only did it in the morning.

Was Glencairn that bad? It seemed okay the rare morning I was up that way.

I doubt it would be any more than AM peak and PM peak anyhow.

 

[transitthinker]

I've heard several people mention the Laird turn back as the planned service pattern, not sure if it's true. I will say that the TTC takes a long time to turn back vehicles, often delaying the one behind

 

[Steve X]

Was Glencairn that bad? It seemed okay the rare morning I was up that way.

I doubt it would be any more than AM peak and PM peak anyhow.

If everything was running smoothly that morning, then it wouldn't be that bad. When a train that is suppose to fit between two trains from "Downsview" is late cause it got stuck, they'll sometimes wait and hold a train at Lawrence West for a couple minutes.

 

[smallspy]

Hasn't there been talk of operationally short-turning some (peak?) trains at Laird.

At an unknown future date, yes. They have short-turned some in testing service in order to train the ops and also to re-sequence trains, but for the first several years all scheduled service will operate end-to-end.

Somehow I highly doubt TTC lines the short turn idea. They will just mess it up and make the whole line run like a mess. When they had the line 1 short turn at Glencarin, they only did it in the morning.

What do you mean "when"? It happens every single weekday morning from the beginning of September to the end of June.

And no, it absolutely, positively was not a mess - the service runs quite fine through that section, in fact. For all of the complaints about the TTC's service - and quite rightly so - this was the one thing that consistently runs pretty smoothly.

Dan

 

[nfitz]

If everything was running smoothly that morning, then it wouldn't be that bad. When a train that is suppose to fit between two trains from "Downsview" is late cause it got stuck, they'll sometimes wait and hold a train at Lawrence West for a couple minutes.

You see enough 1- or 2-minute holds on Line 2. Typically at Chester. I'd have thought with automation they could just time them into the whole run a bit more seamlessly though.

And no, it absolutely, positively was not a mess - the service runs quite fine through that section, in fact.

Are you referring to current gap trains? Or the many years (decades) of short-turns at Glencairn before the TYSSE opened?[

 

[jmi22]

New story on the Crosstown stations in Little Jamaica, and the shifts to bus service planned for opening

Line 5: Crosstown Stations to Transform Little Jamaica Accessibility | UrbanToronto

In Little Jamaica, one of Toronto’s most culturally vibrant areas, an unprecedented level of mobility is set to arrive with the long-delayed opening of Eglinton Line 5. Within the area's boundaries, four rapid transit stations are expected to open later this year. Soon, at any of the area’s...

urbantoronto.ca

 

[smallspy]

Are you referring to current gap trains? Or the many years (decades) of short-turns at Glencairn before the TYSSE opened?[

The long-running morning short turn trains, first to St. Clair West and more recently to Glencairn.

Dan