Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[BurlOak]

You will pay some premium on wages for night and weekend work. But that’s not the biggest reason why this is only done in extreme circumstances.

You don’t want to mobilise that many trades and that much equipment at once for a “normal” project, because all it takes is one unforeseen or glitch to leave you with everyone standing around doing nothing (and getting paid) while it is solved. Just-in-time delivery is wonderful for manufacturing but deadly in construction. Float has its purpose.

Not saying ML projects are executed efficiently, but you won’t see such all-out efforts unless there is a true need for short execution windows.

- Paul

What are the alternatives. For this, a very low complexity precast culvert, its either

1. tunneling under the active tracks, and ensuring that the under-construction tunnel is stable to support full train traffic while its being done, or
2. build a temporary retaining wall parallel to the tracks, built half the tunnel, build new temporary tracks above half tunnel, then build the remaining portion of the tunnel, then put the tracks back to their original location.

Both of these require significantly more work to be done, so it is quite likely that the one-night or one-weekend work is actually cheaper. For number 2, the temporary track work could be permanent track work if tracks are being added to the corridor anyway - but they need to be smart enough an add in those extra tracks while this work is being done.

 

[smallspy]

I can't quite make out if it's wide enough for 3 tracks though.

It's only wide enough for 2 tracks. That's because the Uxbridge corridor is much narrower than all of the others, and there is really only space for 2 mainline tracks down its length.

What are the alternatives. For this, a very low complexity precast culvert, its either

1. tunneling under the active tracks, and ensuring that the under-construction tunnel is stable to support full train traffic while its being done, or
2. build a temporary retaining wall parallel to the tracks, built half the tunnel, build new temporary tracks above half tunnel, then build the remaining portion of the tunnel, then put the tracks back to their original location.

Both of these require significantly more work to be done, so it is quite likely that the one-night or one-weekend work is actually cheaper. For number 2, the temporary track work could be permanent track work if tracks are being added to the corridor anyway - but they need to be smart enough an add in those extra tracks while this work is being done.

There is also a space concern to consider.

If they were to tunnel under the tracks, they may require more space around the tunnel site that simply may not be available with the community centre being located there.

For the two-stage construction, there would be a need to shift the tracks as the second half of the tunnel was built, and the curves to allow this would require several hundred metres. That kind of space may not be available considering the location of the platform. They are certainly not in a position to build the full length of the second platform yet, not until the ramp for the SRT gets demolished.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[Neutrino]

No I don't think it is wide enough for three tracks. Imagine the overtime payment made so this kind of construction.

Our version of that video of the track lowering in Japan

 

[Leo_Chan]

Our version of that video of the track lowering in Japan

But over 3 days instead of 1 night.

 

[steveintoronto]

Official time lapse of the new Kennedy Station pedestrian tunnel GOing in. I can't quite make out if it's wide enough for 3 tracks though. And this type of continuous construction should be the norm for all projects, but unfortunately it's not.

Without commenting on the particular details of this instance, it looks like Crosstown has learned a lot from UK builders, especially those with Network Rail (and Thameslink and Crossrail) contracts, both in the planning, staging and execution of the contract, and in the film production of documenting it for the public. I'm far more impressed with this concise story/doc than I am with all the promo that preceded it.

See this vid for an example of a private contractor's vid of a bridge replacement for Network Rail:

Very interesting, and very encouraging. I wonder how much of that is due to the P3 structure of Crosstown in terms of management prowess? Both mechanically and in PR.

Addendum: Trying to track down who produced the "75 hour" vid. It's very different from the previous vids for Crosstown, and as mentioned above, remarkably similar to ones coming out of the UK.

See previous vids here:
http://urbantoronto.ca/news/2015/11/new-videos-offer-close-look-crosstown-lrt-line-stations

More info on this particular installation here:
http://thecrosstown.ca/news-media/w...or-go-transit-improvements-at-kennedy-station

 

[crs1026]

Without commenting on the particular details of this instance, it looks like Crosstown has learned a lot from UK builders, especially those with Network Rail (and Thameslink and Crossrail) contracts, both in the planning, staging and execution of the contract, and in the film production of documenting it for the public. I'm far more impressed with the concise story that told than I am with all the promo that preceded it.

Very interesting, and very encouraging. I wonder how much of that is due to the P3 structure of Crosstown in terms of management prowess? Both mechanically and in PR.

No different than what GO did with an underpass in Aldershot, or at the West Toronto tunnel. This is not their first smaller tunnel installation, either. Lots of GO stations have 'em, and they were installed with similar compressed windows.

I would say GO got theirs done first, and the UK came along and copied ;-)

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

No different than what GO did with an underpass in Aldershot, or at the West Toronto tunnel. This is not their first smaller tunnel installation, either. Lots of GO stations have 'em, and they were installed with similar compressed windows.

I would say GO got theirs done first, and the UK came along and copied ;-)

- Paul

The US has been producing vids like this for years...this is the first one I've seen done in Ontario, at least, that absolutely mimics the UK productions. I'm talking the PR package, not the project.

There's literally close to a hundred or more of weekend projects captured high-speed time-lapse on YouTube, a good number of them having the same production signature of this vid. A signature that I can't find with any of ML, let alone Crosstown's vids prior. I'm a rail geek, and find most ML vids boring, on a good day. And that's those I can bear to watch all the way through.

This is one is thrilling! Yes! Note the comments at the YouTube link!

Here's a Tasmanian one, similar vid production technique, but done by the private contractor, like many of the UK ones are.

If there are time-lapse weekend construction vids of the ML projects you mention, please link, and prove me wrong.

 

[crs1026]

If there are time-lapse weekend construction vids of the ML projects you mention, please link, and prove me wrong.

Here you go.

Edit: And here.

- Paul

 

[crs1026]

^And here. Note that the author is GOGTSProject - ie ML was posting these as they happened. If you search Youtube for this channel, there are several of interest.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Here you go.

Edit: And here.

- Paul

Perhaps I should have made it more clear as to it being a *production*, not just footage. Compare that to the Crosstown vid.

And again, not just time lapse, but over a weekend or holiday, not a month. The quips of "overtime" in others' posts prior address that.

 

[crs1026]

*sigh* The King Road project was slid over a Thanksgiving weekend iirc. At the time it was streamed live, with lots of ML publicity. As it happened IIRC one of the sub's was using proprietary technology and had not been warned about the streaming, so it was cut on and off all weekend depending on what could be seen on camera. While CN had a shoofly for freight, there was no VIA or GO service through the site at the time.

The West Toronto slides (there were a couple) also happened over weekend windows with the CP line severed for the duration of the slide.

As to the production quality, you'd have to ask ML if they had a Hollywood quality version. My dusty memory says they did.

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

*sigh* The King Road project was slid over a Thanksgiving weekend iirc. At the time it was streamed live, with lots of ML publicity. As it happened IIRC one of the sub's was using proprietary technology and had not been warned about the streaming, so it was cut on and off all weekend depending on what could be seen on camera. While CN had a shoofly for freight, there was no VIA or GO service through the site at the time.

The West Toronto slides (there were a couple) also happened over weekend windows with the CP line severed for the duration of the slide.

As to the production quality, you'd have to ask ML if they had a Hollywood quality version. My dusty memory says they did.

- Paul

"Sigh". Is that the sound-track for the vid? I've seen both those vids and more many times. They are NOT "productions!" The Crosstown vid linked above is. And it's a wonderful one. It's something that will *sell the project* and sell how serious they are in finishing it. Maybe you don't realize the impact that a well produced short like that, with sound and titles, has. But it certainly typifies what 'new media' demands in terms of sound, slickness and messages.

I'm the kinda guy that wishes there wouldn't be sound in space movies save for when a medium can actually transmit audio or concussive forces. But it would be a hell of a boring experience for most.

I've got a basement full of raw film footage of events, only the last generation or so have I moved to digital mediums, but they are not *productions* and very few if any are 24 hour two or three day continuous footage. And only the digital ones, and not all of them, have sound tracks attached.

Crosstown has just done something dynamic and interesting with this latest vid. It's a *production*. In fact, I'm going to watch it for a fourth time in an hour.

 

[44 North]

Official time lapse of the new Kennedy Station pedestrian tunnel GOing in. I can't quite make out if it's wide enough for 3 tracks though. And this type of continuous construction should be the norm for all projects, but unfortunately it's not.

Oh man, hard to watch that video and not feel anger about the Belleville Underpass project in Toronto that somehow took 20x longer than promised. Whereas this is an active rail line and they're adding a brand new underpass over a weekend, the Belleville Underpass was a disused track and mere expansion of a preexisting ped tunnel. It took well over a *year* to complete!

 

[steveintoronto]

Oh man, hard to watch that video and not feel anger about the Belleville Underpass project in Toronto that somehow took 20x longer than promised. Whereas this is an active rail line and they're adding a brand new underpass over a weekend, the Belleville Underpass was a disused track and mere expansion of a preexisting ped tunnel. It took well over a *year* to complete!

I certainly get your gist, but in all fairness, it was because the line at Kennedy was active that the imperative was there to do it in three nights and two days. I just watched that vid again, I get a buzz just by watching what non-stop work looks like. Again, that's an excellent video production. I hope to see more from Metrolinx and others locally like that.

 

[44 North]

I certainly get your gist, but in all fairness, it was because the line at Kennedy was active that the imperative was there to do it in three nights and two days.

Definitely key differences between the two. That being said there was imperative to do the Belleville project quickly too, albeit *relatively* quickly. It's not as if the major recreation corridor that was disrupted couldn't be described as "active" either. Obviously no one expects a trail underpass to be done in three days - which I guess is one reason they buffered for three weeks. Ample time, right? Yet somehow that promise morphed into ~70 weeks. C'mon, that's too much and needs to serve as a reminder. Like you imply when there's a will there's a way. But clearly in certain instances there isn't much of a will...and that notion is true for other projects too.