Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[BMO]

I think Veolia Transportation operates the VIVA system in York Region separate from the rest of the system. When YRT goes on strike, VIVA doesn't necessarily go on strike and vice-versa. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ssiguy2]

Well if the PPP partner agrees to contribute around 25% of the Eglinton line it would get Ford a good chunk of his Sheppard built.
The good thing with PPP is that they build things on time and on budget which is something the TTC seems incapable of doing. They will not try to make the line into a union labour make-work project............the lowest bidder will get the contract unlike when the City builds something where all labour must be at union rates. The Canada Line had a guarantee of the price having to come in budget and any cost overruns would have to be covered 100% of the PPP partner. None of this "escalated dollars" crap. the contract is signed and that's it.
Translink sets the service levels not the partner. As far as this idea that the Canada Line was built under capacity that had NOTHING to do with the PPP but everything to do with Campbell who stated the line only had to have a capacity of 15,000 pphpd.
Did they cheap out on the stations......yes but again that was because Campbell didn't want longer stations or full escalators. In other words the PPP built the line according to the government requests. The stations are rather bland but clean, pleasant and functional. None of this Taj Majal stations like the Spadina ext which is costing a fortune.
PPP can work as well or as badly as the TTC wants them to. Do they cost more.............yes but only due to having to pay the partner back but over the long term they can save a small fortune by getting working capitol now as opposed to having to wait 20 years til you have the money by which time construction costs have tripled. Vancouver, despite the Canada Line's short comings, manged to build a 20km automated metro system for just $2.4 billion of which 12km was tunnel including under False Creek, thru downtown, and two very large bridges over the Fraser River.

 

[leopetr]

I think Veolia Transportation operates the VIVA system in York Region separate from the rest of the system. When YRT goes on strike, VIVA doesn't necessarily go on strike and vice-versa. Correct me if I'm wrong.

YRT subcontracts its bus driving to five different companies. It helps compartmentalize the strikes, but labour compensation rates are similar to what the TTC pays.

 

[Amy Rose]

It could still be integrated into the TTC, just as a premium service or with City revenue redirected to private partners.

So we will have to pay double fare to get on the Eglinton LRT if it goes PPP.... Wouldn't it be a better time to start crowding the Lawrence West and St Clair routes

 

[ShonTron]

I don't think it will ever be a premium service. I'm 99% sure it will be like the Canada Line in Vancouver, which is also a design-build-finance-maintain project. It will seem integrated to the average user.

 

[gweed123]

I don't think it will ever be a premium service. I'm 99% sure it will be like the Canada Line in Vancouver, which is also a design-build-finance-maintain project. It will seem integrated to the average user.

Exactly. The money for the private consortium would come from general fare revenue, probably a guaranteed amount based on the details of the contracts. After a certain amount of time (either a fixed year amount or however long it takes for the consortium to get their money back + whatever extra was agreed to), the ownership of the line would be 100% transferred to Metrolinx. Just to clarify, Metrolinx would still technically "own" the line even before that point, but the consortium would still have a vested interest in it. Much like a shareholder has a stake in a company.

I find there's a lot of misconceptions on here about PPP. The most likely scenario is that the PPP is set up to help cover some of the capital costs of construction, in exchange for on-going revenue generated from that infrastructure. As long as the ROI is good for the consortium, they'll have the cash to pony up to build it. It won't be a "premium service", it won't be owned by the consortium, it'll be completely transparent to the average user (minus the fact that the stations will actually be kept in a state of good repair, because most of these contracts have a maintenance period built into them).

 

[BMO]

YRT subcontracts its bus driving to five different companies. It helps compartmentalize the strikes, but labour compensation rates are similar to what the TTC pays.

Thanks for clearing this up for me, cheers.

 

[ladyscraper]

Are they still planning on starting construction this summer?

 

[Palma]

Are you suggesting that consultants are cheap? If you think you'd save money by paying them each $250/hour to sit around a table and talk about it, then go right ahead.

Privatizing Eglinton is maybe the best way forward for Ford. No one wants to touch a privatized Sheppard, but Eglinton will actually have some ridership. It could still be integrated into the TTC, just as a premium service or with City revenue redirected to private partners. If someone is willing to pay to build a subway, they should be entitled to part revenue for it's lifespan (~50 years). If it's the provience, it's a tax burden. If it's a private entity, it's only a revenue drain. The second is the easier political sell.

I have no idea what you are trying to say when you talk about consultants. It was suppose to be a tongue in cheek - those employees at Metrolinx I am sure are getting paid a pretty penny so perhaps their jobs should be privatized. How could the Eglinton line be a premium service when its not even a subway plus on some of these forums I have road that Metrolinx wants to run the LRT every 6 min in rush hour and 12 min non-rush hour. That's premium service?

 

[Mapleson]

I have no idea what you are trying to say when you talk about consultants. It was suppose to be a tongue in cheek - those employees at Metrolinx I am sure are getting paid a pretty penny so perhaps their jobs should be privatized.

I was trying to say that privizing jobs doesn't have as much as an effect on the bottom line as improving efficiency.

The 6 min/12 min service headways was just one of the screen lines used in modeling.

One scenario that will be modelled is based on a 3-car LRV train running every 6 minutes at peak, 12 at off peak. This scenario was mentioned at one of a series of public meetings about the Crosstown that has taken place along the route since April 26. This possibility does not constitute a final decision about frequency of service along the route.

How could the Eglinton line be a premium service when its not even a subway plus on some of these forums I have road that Metrolinx wants to run the LRT every 6 min in rush hour and 12 min non-rush hour. That's premium service?

Historically (1921-1974), extra fares applied by time or distance. Eglinton will have PRESTO machines for the length of the corridor, so it has the option to be a premium service, whether flat-fee, distance-based, or zonal-based (no time-based charges were set-up as part of the initial Presto rollout). I suggested the City should use that option to cover over some of the excessive costs for Eglinton so that we might afford the next decade of construction a bit sooner.

 

[Palma]

I do not see how that makes sense - having the Eglinton line be distance based for ie. but not the other subway lines. I just do not see how that would work. The whole system has to be distance based and this needs to happen soon.

 

[sixrings]

Personally I live close enough to downtown that a fare by distance would more then likely save me a good amount of money. That being said I dont think its right to charge a fare by distance to transit users until there is a fare by distance for auto use. I heard amsterdamn was considering some gps technology that calculates how far ypou drive and then sends you a bill once a month for how many total Kms you drove. That would be the equivelant to what is being proposed for transit. Without such a system we are simply encouraging more driving in the suburbs where we need more transit riders to begin with. Also as a formal resident of downtown toronto, I'd like to say that I bought a transit pass every year for convenience purposes. Did I get 125$ of value out of it every month? Probably not. But I always looked it as convienent for me and whatever I didnt use was a donation to the TTC. The fact is I could afford it so whats the difference. Fare by distance more then likely is just going to help the downtown core, and those people can afford the ttc at any price, so it really doesnt make much sense to me.

 

[Palma]

Many major cities in the world have a distance based transit system so there is no reason why Toronto cannot. Sure there will be people who do not like the idea and thsoe are the ones that need to go the furthest distance. Does a flight cost more to go to Montreal or Halifax? The same principle should apply to public transit. This only makes sense. For cars, there should be a price. No free parking, reduced parking spaces and speed limits and tolls (congestion charges)for the damage they do to roads and what it costs to upkeep them plus the air we breathe.. For sure in 50 years time driving habits will be different in Toronto.

 

[rbt]

Flight pricing is a poor example. Flights on Air Canada for today are more nearly double the price to Montreal ($450) as Halifax ($240).

Oddly, even the connection to Halifax via Montreal is cheaper than a flight to Montreal.

Airline pricing does have a distance component but that is only one of many items used for setting pricing.

If you adjusted TTC fares by congestion level (I.e. significantly more expensive on snow days), distance, competition availability, then flights are a better example.

 

[Eug]

That being said I dont think its right to charge a fare by distance to transit users until there is a fare by distance for auto use. I heard amsterdamn was considering some gps technology that calculates how far ypou drive and then sends you a bill once a month for how many total Kms you drove.

Quite frankly, that's just moronic.

Anyone proposing that here would be handily defeated in an election, as they should be.