Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[syn]

Can we agree Sheppard is a suburban line, and suburban line relies on good connector surface routes for ridership?
The current line has poor/no connecting routes for the non-terminus stations. That does not help with ridership.
Take for example Lawrence station on Yonge, how much walk-up traffic is there? The neighborhood is mostly SFH and affluent, perhaps more so than ones line 4 serves.
Having TOD at station is a bonus but that is a matter of planning policy.
Did some searching and I was surprised to see Dupont and Bayview stations have around the same ridership (in 2018). Not a feat but hey, it has 40+ years.

My take on this is it demonstrated how we should not half-ass our plans. You either build it full/proper or don't bother. They didn't stick to the original plan so now we have this never ending debate on the an incomplete line's merit.

This is exactly why there shouldn't have been a subway on Sheppard on the first place. The surrounding density and usage simply didn't justify it (and still doesn't).

We need to get past the idea that "proper transit" = "subway".

 

[nfitz]

I don't see what's the problem here.

The lack of a route number is a problem. We shouldn't be going backwards.

Also a lack of indication of service hours.

Black's going to be difficult to see, strapped to a hydro pole, in the dark. Design failure. Also ... seems optimistic that TTC will adopt it.

 

[reteequa]

The lack of a route number is a problem. We shouldn't be going backwards.

Also a lack of indication of service hours.

Black's going to be difficult to see, strapped to a hydro pole, in the dark. Design failure. Also ... seems optimistic that TTC will adopt it.

Would be nice if you did some research and learned the rationale for the different types of signs.

Firstly, this specific type of sign is used to signify a bus stop. For this sign the information is put on a information or guide panel closer to the ground with more information.

In Level 3 and Level 4 bus stops (where a Bus Schedule Panel or Bus Stop Guide is not installed), journey planning information is to be included on the bus stop flag below the operator logo. A suggested design is included here, but this may need to be modified to align with the operator’s customer information service.

from page 255

Next theres this crazy invention by Thomas Edison called the light bulb. believe or not it illuminates things.

Last, the document also states that Toronto has TO360 and that is the standard in the city therefor it will be used within Toronto by the TTC. I'm sure the hope is eventually the TTC will see the upside of having a seamless way finding system region wide and adopt Metrolinx's standard.

Can't believe they needed to hire a consultation firm to tell them how to do that. You can always tell when decision makers don't actually use the product they are selling because they spend money on consultants to tell them things that are obvious to anyone who actually uses the product. Seriously anyone on this site could have come up with the same idea for free, and hell just go over to the Fantasy Map thread to see it in action and done better. Metrolinx really just exudes "Big Brain" energy. I am adamant if you got a bunch of us on this site together we could come up with a better more cohesive way finding system.

Did you read anything from the report? There is rationale for every specific detail about every type of sign. This is a bunch of idiots being paid to put a few pictures on a sign.

I really don't understand why some of you one second complain about the regions fairs not being integrated but when they try to integrate another part you hate it.

Do you just hate METROLINX that much?

Something like this should've been implemented at the very least.

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I am a little confused why they have put up what they have because there is nothing similar to it in their way finding standard.

However, I dont think we can rule out that we wont be seeing theres pop up. This is one of the first signs we have seen so maybe just wait.

 

[Coolstar]

I am a little confused why they have put up what they have because there is nothing similar to it in their way finding standard.

However, I dont think we can rule out that we wont be seeing theres pop up. This is one of the first signs we have seen so maybe just wait.

Apparently, the TTC logo will come later. Closer to opening day. Though I don't see why they could not add in the TTC logo now.

 

[ARG1]

This is exactly why there shouldn't have been a subway on Sheppard on the first place. The surrounding density and usage simply didn't justify it (and still doesn't).

We need to get past the idea that "proper transit" = "subway".

I find it amusing that I keep debunking the notion you write here, and yet every time you ignore me.

I'm getting tired of reiterating myself, so I'll just repost what I wrote to you before:

The area is woefully underused due to bad urban planning. Its a suburban area not because it is what it is, but because the city refused to upzone it. Toronto has insane housing prices due to high demand and very low supply. We can absolutely create more ultra dense corridors along these arterials. You don't build subways where high rises are, you build highrises where subways are.

 

[afransen]

This is exactly why there shouldn't have been a subway on Sheppard on the first place. The surrounding density and usage simply didn't justify it (and still doesn't).

We need to get past the idea that "proper transit" = "subway".

A BRT would have been plenty.

 

[chinesehorse]

That is one of the main problems with us transit "enthusiasts". We think we know everything and can change the world, dismissing anything and anyone that we dont think is a good idea as detrimental to society.

Bang on. From my experience people working in transit (TTC, Metrolinx, engineering firms, consulting firms) really dislike transit enthusiasts (even though many are transit enthusiasts themselves).

I don't always agree, but I can see why people who spend 4-6 years getting an education in planning/civil engineering/architecture, are passionate for transit, and dedicate years of their lives working on projects are told that their work sucks and that a people on the internet could do better.

More valid criticisms would be the senseless politicization and bureaucracy imposed upon transit professionals and the difficulty in satisfying everyone.

 

[afransen]

Bang on. From my experience people working in transit (TTC, Metrolinx, engineering firms, consulting firms) really dislike transit enthusiasts (even though many are transit enthusiasts themselves).

I don't always agree, but I can see why people who spend 4-6 years getting an education in planning/civil engineering/architecture, are passionate for transit, and dedicate years of their lives working on projects are told that their work sucks and that a people on the internet could do better.

More valid criticisms would be the senseless politicization and bureaucracy imposed upon transit professionals and the difficulty in satisfying everyone.

That's just the general public. I don't see how being criticized by joe public in a way that shows joe public has some understanding is worse than joe public complaining out of complete ignorance for how the world works.

 

[W. K. Lis]

It's been five years...

These are slowly being replaced...

with these...

 

[KhalilHeron]

It should be TTC/Metrolinx policy that all future transit lines and extensions must begin and end at higher-order transit with maybe some minor exceptions allowed (post-secondary campuses, airports, etc.) Stubways are frankly a massive mismanagement of public funds

Stubways suck but that certainly wouldnt help. Branching lines that dont end at other transit can be useful given it has the length and density to support it

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Can't believe they needed to hire a consultation firm to tell them how to do that. You can always tell when decision makers don't actually use the product they are selling because they spend money on consultants to tell them things that are obvious to anyone who actually uses the product. Seriously anyone on this site could have come up with the same idea for free, and hell just go over to the Fantasy Map thread to see it in action and done better. Metrolinx really just exudes "Big Brain" energy. I am adamant if you got a bunch of us on this site together we could come up with a better more cohesive way finding system.

Apparently they didn't hire a consultant although they did hire someone who specializes in wayfinding and they did studies with groups of people and focus groups along with local community counselor members to come up with their silly names and the generic t logo that they want every transit system in the GTHA to adopt so that it's more uniform across all systems.

 

[Steve X]

Bang on. From my experience people working in transit (TTC, Metrolinx, engineering firms, consulting firms) really dislike transit enthusiasts (even though many are transit enthusiasts themselves).

I don't always agree, but I can see why people who spend 4-6 years getting an education in planning/civil engineering/architecture, are passionate for transit, and dedicate years of their lives working on projects are told that their work sucks and that a people on the internet could do better.

More valid criticisms would be the senseless politicization and bureaucracy imposed upon transit professionals and the difficulty in satisfying everyone.

The problem isn't everyone. It's just the seniors running large company would prefer doing the old way than to let new people try new things and screw up. They aren't open to change (which all people don't like to a certain degree). It reduces their risk. If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[awaterwell]

I think the T is a good symbol. Maybe it could have been better, but it's definitely an improvement over current signage - what about any of these signs says "transit" to someone who doesn't recognize the logos?

The YRT sign does say "transit" and "bus stop", but good luck noticing that if you're in a hurry, standing more than a couple metres from the pole, or have limited knowledge of English.
GO especially could benefit from this - considering how a lot of their stations are designed you could easily conclude it was a carpool system, or a parking lot operator (and you'd be half right on the second one)!

 

[JSF-1]

I think the T is a good symbol. Maybe it could have been better, but it's definitely an improvement over current signage - what about any of these signs says "transit" to someone who doesn't recognize the logos?
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The YRT sign does say "transit" and "bus stop", but good luck noticing that if you're in a hurry, standing more than a couple metres from the pole, or have limited knowledge of English.
GO especially could benefit from this - considering how a lot of their stations are designed you could easily conclude it was a carpool system, or a parking lot operator (and you'd be half right on the second one)!

Say what you will about noticeably but I've always felt the TTC bus stop design has to be one of the best out there. To me it is significantly better then the standard "flag" style design you see in York and pretty much most other places in the world. It just stands out more and of course if your an operator I really don't know how you can see the "flag" style stops while driving. The TTC one is more unique and so it stands out more among a crowd. What ever the way finding may be I wouldn't be against exporting the TTC stop poll design to the rest of the GTA. I mean as you drive down the street you are bombarded with a variety of signs on sticks and so the "flag" style bus stop to me seems like it could fade into the background easily. The TTC poll however is unique in that there is nothing else like it on the road. Just look at the picture, right behind the TTC poll is a "flag" style sign on a stick, one of many you would encounter. Yet the TTC's red and white stripped poll is unique in that there's nothing else like it until you encounter the next one.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think the T is a good symbol. Maybe it could have been better, but it's definitely an improvement over current signage - what about any of these signs says "transit" to someone who doesn't recognize the logos?
View attachment 296353View attachment 296354View attachment 296352
The YRT sign does say "transit" and "bus stop", but good luck noticing that if you're in a hurry, standing more than a couple metres from the pole, or have limited knowledge of English.
GO especially could benefit from this - considering how a lot of their stations are designed you could easily conclude it was a carpool system, or a parking lot operator (and you'd be half right on the second one)!

I don't really see how adding an extra symbol that tells no body anything will help make it easier to find a transit stop. Especially if Metrolinx wants to strong arm every agency in the GTA to follow along with it. Metrolinx created a problem that didn't exist by presenting it to people as a problem and then offered a solution to the problem that they created.